[LoQtus] which of the 12 mods I'm working on, saddam?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] what about it?
[faded_glory] lol
[faded_glory] the PBEM one.......via Slick
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Actually, it's probably a simpler format than Civ2's but it's got more stuff in it
[LoQtus] mike, sure byt you can always make it easier for us :)
[faded_glory] if that is possible :-?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] amb -- what about it?
[Mercator] yay!
[tulcas] there isn't any sort of an editor for that came with the game is there?
[tulcas] or do you guys plan on releasing one?
[LoQtus] saddam: still haven't had time for it yet, too busy with other projects (medmod, alexander)
[faded_glory] oh thats cool
[faded_glory] ya take your time
[faded_glory] dont matter.......the world has lost interest anyway
[faded_glory] lol
[WarTourist] Hey Mike B! You've been called the greatest programmer since Turing! Care to comment?
[faded_glory] a$$holes at activision
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] nice
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] there are no editors for graphics or sound manipulation, I'm afraid you're on your own for that.
[LoQtus] lonestar: oh
[LoQtus] *shrug*
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] your
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Turing was a rookie anyway
[Lonestar1] The Borg are wussies
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[WarTourist] Hey Sobrado...You've been called the best programmer since Tito Jackson...Care to comment?
[tulcas] ok, i'll give a shot writing one then
[tulcas] but it'll be a while
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] I can dance too
[faded_glory] dang.....lots of AOL users
[WarTourist] FIRAXIS RULES!
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I believe there are commercial programs that can be used to edit the graphics and sound
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[LoQtus] pha, wait until we come and assimilate you ;)
[Ben] any free ones mike?
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[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Ummm... I'm not sure. Probably. We used PCX files for the static graphics
[Ben_IW] ah good, PSP will do fine then
[Lonestar1] Nah, clearly something is wrong with them if a 23rrd rate ship like Voyager can beat 'em
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I didn't work on the sound code at all so I'm not sure about those formats....
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] sounds are in either wav, mp3 or amb format, but I don't know much more about that
[LoQtus] saddam: yep but even if only one guy cares I'll still make it, some day...
[Mercator] well, thatīs not exactly free, is it, Ben?
[faded_glory] hey i busted ass my ass this morning. I walked out into the parking lot and slipped on a patch of ice. First ice of the season *sigh*
[LoQtus] PSP is not free Ben, just because you didn't pay doesn't mean it's free ;)
[Mercator] whatīs amb?
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[Ben_IW] no, but you can get a free *trial*
[faded_glory] hey Locutus..thats cool. If you u get it done, CTP-PBEMers will go to CTP2 Pbem.
[Ben_IW] ah whatever, its aprogram i have, thats what counts
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] photoshop, or photoshop LE (comes with many scanners)should be able to do that
[tulcas] ok thank you again guys
[Ben_IW] photoshop sucks. i have that as well (paid :))
[LoQtus] well, might be a while though but if so, I might even join ya :)
[Mercator] hey, wow, that makes two of us :)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Photoshop is great for programmer art ;-)
[Mercator] (not that i ever bought photoshop)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I like ProMotion myself....
[LoQtus] make that three :)
[faded_glory] arg...anthrax got me shook up. Afraid to open those bills :scared:
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] It's not the anthrax that make sme afraid to open my bills... ;)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] lol
[LoQtus] lol
[Mercator] heh
[faded_glory] lol
[Ben_IW] lol
[faded_glory] hey why not send them back and say they were suspicous anyway, eh? ;-)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] good idea
[LoQtus] hmm, good idea
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] I'm sure thats a perfectly valid excuse
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[faded_glory] well...im going to go on sony station and play some rounds of Bug Hunt (love that game) Good luck to all of you...have fun! Thanks again firaxis dudes!
[Mercator] and then get a bill of the health department (or whoeverīs responsible for coming by and cleaning the anthrax).
[tulcas] i am gonna try to dissect these things, they seem just to be a sort of 'macro' sound playing language sorta like a dynamic playlist which builds up the smaller sounds (like a footstep) into a bigger sound like walking a path, the cool thing is that they seem to be dynamic so that depending on how long the path is, or long the combat is the sounds will be generated randomly...pretty cool :)
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[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] That sounds like what the sound programmer described to me once....
[Lonestar1] Well, I'm taking off. Good night and God Bless.
[LoQtus] bye
[Mercator] bye
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] later
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] I think you're right, i believe it combines wave files to play in synch
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[Ben_IW] night lonestar
[LoQtus] cool
[Ben_IW] ug. well, printing final map of stoopid sand dunes. time to turn in i think...
[LoQtus] bye, ben
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[LoQtus] mike, javier: what do you guys think was the least succesfull game in the civ series? Civ1, 2 or 3? and the most?
[tulcas] wow that is pretty sharp...most impressive
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] hmmmm....
[LoQtus] thx
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[ACS_MarkG] mike, is it possible to send a screenshot of the minimap of your map?
[Mercator] you canīt really say anything abou the success of Civ3 can you?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Sure... hang on a minute
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Mercator: Not yet
[ACS_MarkG] cool
[ACS_MarkG] http://apolyton.net/cgi-bin/civ3files/download.pl?id=17
[Mercator] and civ1 was the first in the genre...
[LoQtus] well, merc. mike and Javier played the game, they could give their personal opinion
[LoQtus] duh! ;)
[Mercator] ah
[Mercator] ... bic?
[LoQtus] ???
[Mercator] the extension of the map file
[LoQtus] ah
[Ben_IW] markos, what is a *.bic file?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Civ 1 was ground breaking, civ 2 ate away countless hours, but until Civ3 I didn't really enjoy dealing with the AI opponents.
[ACS_MarkG] you'll find out when you get civ3 ben :)
[Mercator] whatīs the maps dimensions?
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[LoQtus] markos: when do you get it?
[Ben_IW] aha map file
[LoQtus] javier: surprising about dealing with opponents in civ3
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] 140x140
[LoQtus] why?
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[Ben_IW] what was omni's favourite size for ctp2?
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[Mercator] thanks
[LoQtus] 210x210
[Ben_IW] 310*310 was it? cant remeber
[LoQtus] you're right
[LoQtus] i think
[ACS_MarkG] locutus, one of these days, depends on how fedex is....
[LoQtus] ah, so you are getting it early? hmmm...cheater! the rest of us 'eurocoms' has to wait! ;)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] In civ 2 I didn't feel I needed to deal witht the AI to beat it at king level, it acted in somewhat predictable ways, and was rather dry.
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] MarkG: I just sent you the minimap pic
[Ben_IW] aargh, even locutus is using OT Dornan-tongue
[Ben_IW] run for the hills!
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Lets just say that diplomacy and AI have been much improved upon
[LoQtus] cool, javier. interesting insights
[LoQtus] ben :D
[LoQtus] bob always gives me a good laugh :)
[ACS_MarkG] great mike, thanks!
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[Ben_IW] anyway, if i dont sleep i'll be wasted tomorrow
[Ben_IW] g'night
[LoQtus] damn, I'm running out of questions :o
[LoQtus] good night
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] good night
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] g'night
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] whew
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[LoQtus] :D
[Mercator] Hey, is that the map title? "Can you become the lord of the ring?"
[ACS_MarkG] bye!
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[tulcas] i am running into the same problem using the editor i am wondering if one of you guys could tell me for a newly renamed unit what are the files that have to be made to support it... e.g. i rename "Worker" to "Worka" i have to make a subdir under art/units/worka and a worka.ini file in that dir correct?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] yes
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] That yes answered both tulcas and Mercator....
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[Mercator] well, Iīll have the map format cracked in a couple of days then ;)
[Mercator] due to a lack of civ3 at the moment
[tulcas] haha very conservative use of the affirmative :)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] if that long...
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[tulcas] ok then in the .ini file do i have to specify any other files or can i leave them all blank?
[LoQtus] can the AI be edited in any way and if not, are there any plans for patches?
[Mercator] well, university calls as well
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Well you need to have some to copy the format of the other ini files -- if you don' tfill any of the entries there will beno graphics for the unit... and the game will probably crash -- I never tried removing all the graphics.
[tulcas] ok does there need to be any sound?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] You can edit several of the variables that the AI takes into effect, just look around the editor.
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I don't think so. But I never tried that either...
[LoQtus] that's the problem Javier: i don't have the editor (or the game) yet :)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] ah...
[tulcas] ok thanks again guys :) hopefully this will all pan out for you and you won't have to add an add unit button to the editor :)
[tulcas] alright woohoo i got it working!
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] LoQtus: You can edit the personalities of each civ, what govt types they favor and avoid, and how they manage their cities....
[tulcas] thank you soo much now i can just wrap this up upload the bic and start playing!!!
[LoQtus] good work tulcas
[LoQtus] thanks mike
[LoQtus] say I (for whatever reason) would want the AI to attack like a lunatic, leave his cities poorly or undefended and use 95% of it's forces to attack the nearest enemy city. Could this be done?
[LoQtus] cities
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] well, you could push the aggression level all the way up, and give him a favorite goverment that is pro-war (or even make your own govt), but I'm fairly sure theu will always defend their cities in the late game
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Well, you can tell them to never build defensive units too...
[LoQtus] okay, thanks. i think I'm getting the picture here
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I don't think you have as much control over it as our AI programmer does though....
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[ACS_MarkG] the gamespot reviewer (tom chick) seemed to have some problems with the governors....
[LoQtus] hmm, i see. well, some tricks are possible, the ai is more flexible than i thought... :)
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[ACS_MarkG] they were building archers in medieval times or something...
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Hmmm... I haven't read that review yet...
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Perhaps he didn't have the resources to build better units?
[ACS_MarkG] it's a 9.2 though :)
[ACS_MarkG] details, details ;)
[ACS_MarkG] http://gamespot.com/gamespot/stories/reviews/0,10867,2821275-1,00.html
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] well, if they didn't have iron (swordsmen, knights) it might choose to build a cheap offensive unit rather than a more expensive and primarily defensive unit
[ACS_MarkG] The endgame bogs down in as deep a morass of micromanagement as ever. Civilizations sprawl and brim over with units. Managing your workers and terrain improvements can get complicated and tedious. Pollution is still an exercise in workers scuttling to and fro. City management and terrain improvement can be turned over to the computer, but you'll get weird situations like archers being built in A.D. 1600 and cityscapes speckled with too many mines.
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Hmmm, we'll have to look into that -- the only time that happened to me was when I built cities on an island that were not connected to my capital. In those instances, archers were the best unit the city could build.
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] heh, my cityscapes are speckled with mines, and I manage my own workers ;-)
[ACS_MarkG] lol
[ACS_MarkG] What is unique to Civilization III is the inordinate time between turns in the later game. On a midrange system, it's not unusual for the computer to take well more than a minute between turns
[LoQtus] :)
[ACS_MarkG] i wonder what a midrange system is...
[Dimis] hmmmm
[LoQtus] so, from this I conclude that units never obsolete anymore?
[Dimis] what do you mean?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] It could take that long when I was playing with 12+ civs but I didn't notice that with 8 civs.
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] hmm, I don't think I ever took that long between turns on my 500 or 800, but on a huge world with 16 civs I can see something like that happening
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] On normal maps
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[LoQtus] what systems did you guys use to play the game?
[LoQtus] CPU, memory?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] no, the longbowman makes the archer obsolete
[Dimis] excuse me, one question: What is the maximum number of rival civs in the game?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I played on my laptop and I'm not sure what the specs were on that (checking now) but it runs find on my p3, 1.0GHz :)
[ACS_MarkG] hey guys, do you think 128mb is enough for 16 civs or is it unrelated?
[ACS_MarkG] dimid, 16(you counted)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] some units require certain resources to build the upgraded versions tho
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I think processor speed is more important there
[Mercator] bugger, looks like my P2 350MHz, 64MB will have a hard time.
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] well, 15 opponents + you = 16
[Dimis] thx
[ACS_MarkG] oh and final issue according to gamespot
[ACS_MarkG] Also, Civ III doesn't offer any decent way to find specific resources, cities, or units. Looking for oil? Wondering where your elite riflemen went? Can't remember where the closest barracks is? Have fun hunting around
[LoQtus] exactly, javier: if I can't build tanks for some reason, can I still build spearmen? if I *can* build tanks, can i build spearmen then?
[LoQtus] (for example)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] well I think the elite rifleman can be located using the military advisor screen
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] finding resources can be a pain, but your trade advisor will tell you what city is closest to an instance of a resource you have
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Once a unit made obsolete you can no longer build them... but your existing ones will stick around until you upgrade them
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] as for spearmen and tanks, the rifleman has not req resources, so you can have at least that in modern times even if you don't have rubber/oil/aluminum
[LoQtus] hmm, so if I don't have the resources for any of the modern units, I might not be able to build any units in a city?
[LoQtus] thanks, javier, that's what i was looking for
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] No there are always units that you can build -- they don't all require resources
[ACS_MarkG] sounds like you can get in real trouble if you dont have the right resources
[LoQtus] that's odd though: a rifleman that doesn't require saltpeter or anything of the sort...
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] yes, and having the right resources in one age doesn't guarantee that you'll have them in the next
[LoQtus] but heck, we'll leave it to history buffs like me to complain about that :)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] technically infantry, tanks, and all modern units would need saltpeter
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[ACS_MarkG] btw, i'm kind of dissapointed. only 2 pages for the review of the most important game of the year? huh! wait for our review... :D
[LoQtus] actually, markos, I'm still waiting for your CtP2 review ;)
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[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] that would kinda unbalance the game no? someone (or a few people could grab all the saltpeter then and knock people out for the rest of the game)
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[LoQtus] true, javier, I understand gamebalance is inferior to historic accuracy but it's still odd. Can't wait for the complaints people will have about this in the forums :)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] its assumed that by the time you get riflemen everyone you've figured out some means of acquiring the necessary resource
[ACS_MarkG] locutus, that's a sad and bitter story, and you know it :)
[LoQtus] that's just as lame an excuse as Star Trek's 'Heisenberg compensators', javier ;)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] fyi, my laptop is a PIII 800MHz with 128 MB. I didn't feel it was too slow with 12 civs on a large map until roughly 1960AD... then it got a little slow between turns.
[LoQtus] doesn't mean you can't review it ;)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] not at all, historically the emergence of nationalism coincided with the discovery of artificial saltpeter ;-)
[LoQtus] lol
[LoQtus] that explains why the Nazi's were so keen on tanks :)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] hehe
[LoQtus] how thoroughly has the game been tested on a minimal system? (p2 300 or whatever)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] .1We had a least one tester playing the game exclusively on the minimal machine.
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I don't know what the system specs were for Infogrames' internal testing though
[LoQtus] and how was the speed with say few civs, no animations and all the fancy stuff turned off?
[Mercator] did anyone volunteer for that job? :)
[LoQtus] lol
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] In fact, she's still playing on that machine....
[DoctorBob] How does the AI usually like to win at deity level?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] you can imagine how jealous the other testers are
[LoQtus] lol
[Mercator] lol
[LoQtus] still playing her first game or still playing? ;)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] it works fairly well, I see her playing with some animation
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] lol
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] maybe that's why she tries to avoid major wars ;-)
[LoQtus] that's a relief for poor students like me, javier :)
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[LoQtus] hehe
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[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] on the bright side, cpu prices are getting very cheap
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[Dimis] good night everybody.
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[ACS_MarkG] yeah, and i might need an upgrade on the 600hx athlon :)
[LoQtus] true, but for some even 'cheap' is a lot of money...
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I still haven't tried to play civ3 on my 64MB Cyrix-266.... I don't know if I'm willing to try it on such a low-end machine.... ;)
[LoQtus] don't complain markos, I'm still on a P200... :(
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] ditto for my p3 500.
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] ouch
[ACS_MarkG] gamespot mentions the version being "1.07f
[LoQtus] i'm gonna upgrade though, I hope... first I want to see how the game runs (ctp2 and civ3 is all I care about anyway)
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] you should be able to get an 800+, with no monitor for around $400 if not less
[Mercator] Iīll probably be upgrading my memory shortly
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Yeah, that was the version that passed all the tests... 1.0 didn't make the cut.
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[SerapisIV] Anyone mind summarizing what I've missed in the chat so far?
[SerapisIV] Hi Mike, Javier!
[Bill3000] Yeah, me too
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] hi
[ACS_MarkG] hey mike, since my review copy was actually mailed yesterday, do you think i'll get a different version?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Well, that's a 6 hour summary.... ;)
[LoQtus] that's almost 1,000 guilders, a lot of money for a dutch student (life is cheaper here but that makes high tech stuff like computers more expensive)
[SerapisIV] You guys have been here for 6 hours?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I don't know but it's possible that it's a later build.... if it came directly from Firaxis.
[LoQtus] that's too much, serapis, wait for the log
[SerapisIV] Nice map Mike, I haven
[Mercator] yes, that would be about two thirds of all the money I have.
[SerapisIV] 't gotten my copy of the game yet, but it looks real similar to one's I like to play on
[Mercator] and add to that another 100 guilders for Civ3
[Bill3000] In the editor, it seems that you can't add units... Is it possible to edit to add more units?
[Mercator] yep
[SerapisIV] Nice internal ocean to mess with far away civs from
[Bill3000] How?
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] Heh, I feel your pain I went from poor student to intern about 4 months ago
[Mercator] erm...
[ACS_MarkG] to gaming celebrity :D
[Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS] lol
[LoQtus] hmm, that sounds good. does firaxis need anymore interns? I study CS myself :D
[Mercator] I donīt have civ3 yet, but this is what I picked up. each unit has its own directory with its graphics etc...
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] Yeah that internal ocean was one of the surprises for AI programmer, Soren Johnson. He wasn't sure if the AI would be able to deal with two separate oceans but to my dismay it knew exactly what to do :)
[Mercator] copy such a directory and rename it to the name of the new unit
[SerapisIV] .12is the map a full world or are the right and left borders unpassable?
[Mercator] and from here mike will have to help you :)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] I explained long ago that we had some problems with FLC file format left over from the previous engine that we didn't discover until the game went final -- what this caused was a problem with being able to add unit graphics since they don' tfollow the exact FLC file format properly. We are working on a fix for this right now. However, tulcas mentioned that he has already managed to get something working in that department by hex editing
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] SerapisIV: The map is a full world and does wrap in the east/west directions
[SerapisIV] so what's Firaxis up to nowadays? Bughunting for a patch, working on an expansion, or drinking too much beer?
[Bill3000] LOL
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS] *Too much* beer? Is there such a thing?
[LoQtus] lol
