Our chat on the Civ3 AI with Soren Johnson. In red, the operators. In
blue, Firaxis team members
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] the units do... the armyh doesn't
[Atahualpa] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1: is there no choice for playing on after UN Victory?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] Atahualpa: it should be like the other victories...
[Congestion] "The units do... the army doesn't" But the increased HP within the army counts, right?
[Anunikoba] I can play on after UN victory
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] congetsion:
[TLG] BTW 1 thing I would love to see on the patch : decolonization i.e. the ability for cities with high corruption {and|or} away from the "historical center" of your civ to claim freedom, thus leaving your empire and starting a new civilization.
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] right
[Auslander1] Soren: Before this ends. I really enjoyed seeing you guys come out and answer these questions. Firaxis really stands out as a company. I love the game.
[Wexu] agree!
[Congestion] Hear, hear!
[[XSS]] Yes
[[XSS]] HORRAY!!
[Dasaecor] agree!
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] Auslander1: I'm glad you like it. We have worked really hard to bring you the best Civ experience yet. (not PR!)
[Canuss] Doesn't that sort of happen when a city revolts to another player?... I mean they don't start another Civ, but...
[SITS] Very much agree!
[ProvostHarrison] test
[Anunikoba] Is it possible for us to access the debug mode for Civ3? (i.e., command-line option)
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] TLG: that is an idea we toyed around with, but there were problems... what if there were then 17 civs?
[Atahualpa] ProvostHarrison: please post your test lines in alt.test; dont you read the netiquette ?
[Atahualpa] :)
[ProvostHarrison] So how are you finding those dodgy people they call 'Infogrames'?
[ProvostHarrison] So how are you finding those dodgy people they call 'Infogrames'?
[ProvostHarrison] Do you know they make mass sacrifices of frogs every day? ;-)
[Atahualpa] hahaha
[Dasaecor] is there going to be a trigger system to do scenarios?
[Auslander1] Soren: Well I would say you guys hit the nail on the head. The game is amazing. It's also ruining my career, social life, and school. :)
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] well, they got the game out pretty quick, so that is thumbs-up.
[[XSS]] Lol
[TLG] If they begin with just 1 or two cities in the latter game that could be fun :)
[TLG] If they begin with just 1 or two cities in the latter game that could be fun :)
[Congestion] An army consisting of three tanks, still only attacks once. Can you tell us a bit about this design decision?
[Nobody2] LOL. I'm cutting my OpenGL class just to be here. :P
[Wexu] Just in US! thumbs down!
[Atahualpa] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1: Well I am still waiting for the copy to arrive in Germany/Austria
[Mark13] *ahem* ...and no MP... *ahem* ;-)
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] wexu: sorry, it won't be long....
[Dasaecor] Soren?, is there going to be a trigger system for doing scenarios?
[Wexu] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1, well, I wouldn't mind if it were some other game, but Civ is always Civ. ;)
[Wexu] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1, well, I wouldn't mind if it were some other game, but Civ is always Civ. ;)
[SITS] Soren - has any bugs that have been found since the game was released caused any finger pointing in the Firaxis office? :)
[Atahualpa] BUT: BIG THUMB UP to the descision to release the ORIGINAL ENGLISH version and not a localized one
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] congestion: well, there are certain things an army is capable of which would be very difficult for regular units, so there were obvious benefits which meant that a trade-off was ok (and even preferred...)
[Congestion] Such as...?
[Anunikoba] Is it possible for us to access the debug mode for Civ3? (i.e., command-line option)
[Nobody2] debug mode ::drools::
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] SITS: no, we are a fantastic team. When we aren't programming, we're gaming together. Bugs are unfortunately just part of the process. If a programmer ever tells you he doesn't write bugs the he is either a) not a programmer or b) lying.
[Wexu] btw, is the annoying unit-changing-if-nothing-is-in-the-queue-governor gone in the next patch? :)
[TLG] Many empires broke because of decolonization and if you limit the number of civilization to something like 12 that could be managed pretty well by the current engine. All the freed civs would be struggling to survive so this should not affect the gameplay too much.
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] wexu: we are looking at giving many more options for running cities...
[Sunstone2] Soren_FIRAXIS : one thing we agreed in the forum was, that a player should be able to deport an AI Settler in a players territory . Will this be possible in a patch?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] TLG: right, but some people play with 16 civs. It is a GOOD idea, but we saw problems with it, so we devoted our problem solving skills elsewhere!
[Nobody2] I say: Make the governer screen have a button that lets you autoselect "All Cities" rather than having to go in and change each one by hand.
[Wexu] and another thing we agreed in the forum was that you could trade military units also, will this be possible in the future?
[Anunikoba] Yes Nobody!
[Anunikoba] We need that
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] Nobody: the governor screen does all you to do that. Just click on the button which says "THis City"
[CyberGnu] Soren, I stil don't agree on that tradeoff. An instant wonder is so obviusly much better than an army. In fact, in the game I jsut played I used a leader to create the manhattan wonder, freeing up 12 turns of production for my captial. That's equivalent to 6 units of modernd armor!
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] "does allow you"
[Sunstone2] Anunikoba : I got CIV3 on monday by pcfun.de . Original american version.
[Mark13] Well, use your leaders to rush wonders then! :-)
[libredr] Stacked units movement would be useful too, especially in late phases of the game.
[[XSS]] Well i got to go, see you all and thank you for coming and answering my questions Soren!!
[CyberGnu] Gnus can't type. The hoofs doesn't fit on the keyboard :(
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] CyberGnu: yes, but if you get one army and it is successful, then you can build the Military Academy and make as many armies as you would like?
[ProvostHarrison] Leaders are bleeding rare though Mark
[ACS_MarkG] bye xss
[Nobody2] I mean, I want to have everything set to "All Cities" without selecting "All Cities" in the 10+ drop-down dialog boxes. :(
[Mark13] Well, I guess that's your choice then....the game seems blanced to me...
[Mark13] Well, I guess that's your choice then....the game seems blanced to me...
[SITS] Yeah, you looked a happy bunch on the video. Any details of the timescale for the patch? Will we have a couple of small patches first then a big one?
[Wexu] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1, could we have a feature to trade military units too in the future maybe?
[Congestion] Sunstone2 asked: Will we be able to deport AI settlers within our borders with a future patch?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] nobody: i see...
[TLG] Let's choose [number of starting civs]*140% as a maximum and the problem is solved. Besides if anyone chooses too many civilizations without having good enough problem that is up to him to choose lower values
[ACS_MarkG] btw, why cant i change the sorting of the cities, in the city list? it does change for 2 seconds, then it changes back!
[Nobody2] It's a bug :P
[Anunikoba] Yes MarkG
[Anunikoba] I hate that
[Nobody2] No, they just did it to torture us.
[Almostboughtit] Are we gonna have to pay for the multiplayer patch/expansion?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] congestion: the game does allow you to demand that the AI get out of your territory. However, they have to be in for a couple turns before you can force it...
[libredr] TLG : or if a new civilization would overflow the existing number, make the decolonized one join an already existing civ.
[CyberGnu] True, but that is a weird reasoning...
[Nobody2] I'd pay to be a beta tester for the multiplayer patch/expansion. :)
[Anunikoba] Soren, it would be excellent if the 'Right of Passage' pact would allow our units and the pacted AI's to occupy the same square
[TLG] Well the number is the max so it no overflow could occur !
[Auslander] Nobody2: I'd pay to be a Firaxis beta tester period.
[CyberGnu] And I'm not sure the tradeoof is worth even that...
[Nobody2] Heh...Put the BetaTester app on eBay. :P
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] anunikoba: that led to some confusing interface issues (like if you attacked that square, who are you attacking)
[SITS] Soren - any details about the patch schedule? A big patch or some small ones?
[Sunstone2] soren : how ?
[Mark13] Ah well. Guess it all comes down to personal preference in the end....
[Anunikoba] Good point Soren
[Congestion] How about Ctrl-Click on a square to move all units in that square? Would be great for the late game.
[CyberGnu] Oh, why can't you airlift armies?
[Sunstone2] often they just donī leave.
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] SITS: sorry, I can't discuss the patch schedule. We are working hard to get it out as fast as possible!
[Anunikoba] Thanx!
[libredr] Would it be possible to kick a foreign settler at the moment he wants to create a city whithin your borders : a window would pop-up and you could expell it whatever the number of turns he has been in your territory.
[SITS] OK. Thanks for being here Soren and I need to shoot off. Well done with the AI!
[Wexu] I think paratroopers and helicopters have too little range. maybe a time to use editor or are they going to change?
[Nobody2] Libredr, most of the time, they build JUST OUTSIDE your border.
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] cybergnu: b/c airlifting armies means airlifting (usually) four units and airports can only airlift one unit/turn
[Anunikoba] Actually
[Anunikoba] nevermind
[Anunikoba] :P
[Congestion] How about Ctrl-Click on a square to move all units in that square? Would be great for the late game.
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] libredr: does the AI really build a city in your territory? that would be a declaration of war.
[Sabre2th] stacked movement might be nice
[libredr] Nobody : or if his borders would overlap yours... It is just an idea
[Sabre2th] but it could cause probelms
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] congestion: that's an idea.
[Wexu] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1, btw, why no battle helicopters? they are very important units in the real life.
[Anunikoba] Soren, I would have liked to seen helicopters be able pick-up units, as well as drop them off
[Almostboughtit] .Soren---Should I wait for Civ 3 multiplayer? Is it gonna be a seperate game like Civ 2 Multiplayer was or is it gonna be in a patch?
[libredr] Soren sorry I expressed myself badly ! But I think we have to change our strategies to protect our borders.
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] Wexu: we determined that it should be very clear for the user if the helicopters are for transport or combat and we chose the former.
[Nobody2] I know, Libredr...I just hate it when the AI decides to build a dinky city on the one free tile left on an itty-bitty penninsula.
[ACS_MarkG] Almostboughtit, there is nothing official about MP
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] I will say that we are looking at city building issues for the AI...
[TLG] Two issues with the new interface : how can I know the remaining moves of my units (I have to store that info in my had for now) and where should I look to know the improvements I made to a tile (roads, irrigation...)
[Wexu] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1, say someone in Firaxis (who does the graphics) to create battle helicopter graphics, I can do the rest. ;)
[Matte] Make the AI use artillery in offensive
[LoQtus] 'Almostboughtit', nice handle. Would fit me as well :)
[yaga] Hello?
[Almostboughtit] .LoQtus---I almost bought it, actually I had it pre-ordered at Babbages until I found out it wasn't multiplayer. Biggest dissapointment it was.
[Sabre2th] hi
[TLG] Does anyone miss this kind of simple but useful info ?
[CyberGnu] could you set in an option to airlift it anyway, taking four turns?
[Sabre2th] what info is that TLG?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] Matte: the AI doesn't put a high prioity on artillery, but I have seen it use it before.
[GuestFr] Is there a way to wake all units that are fortified in one square at the same time?
* ACS_MarkG would like to announce that Soren will be with us for around 20 minutes. He would also like to thank Soren for chating with us for three hours(!) and everyone for helping in having this chat unmoderated for the greater part. Thanks!
[LoQtus] similar for me, thought about it for a long time but no mp, no scripting, 'conservative sequel'...
[Matte] It use it in cities as a defensive unit..
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[ACS_MarkG] and no, i dont have an ego problem
[Arrendek] Soren Johnson, Do you think there is a possibility for a patch to add more control over the choices automated workers make?
[Sabre2th] DAN :D
[Wexu] Soren_Johnson_Firaxis1, have you really been able to use helicopter effectively? (and how??) I think it's operational range is way too small.
[Sunstone2] Congestion : This is possible already, isnīt it ? Read the readme. I think Shit klick or sth.
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] GuestFr: I think if you right-click on a stack and hold down the shift key you can activate multiple units at once. Can someone confirm this? I heard it might be broken.
[Pembleton] Yes you can do it
[Wexu] it works for me.
[Anunikoba] It works fine Soren
*** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Dan_Magaha_FIRAXIS
[Sabre2th] i can
[gamadictG] I don't really like multiplayer in TBS...
[libredr] Why the satellites do not modify the Fog of War ? BTW In previous games, Apollo wonder revealed the cities and it does not anymore.
[LoQtus] hi dan
[gamadictG] Takes a really long time...
[Matte] Love artilery though.. Have a few of them as defence them mop up with offensive unit.. :)
[ACS_MarkG] Hey Dan, network working again?
[Almostboughtit] .+Soren_Johnson---I think if you guys add multiplayer you will sell three times as many copies as you already have. I know a bunch of people who didn't buy it cause it wasn't multiplayer. Great work though, I heard the AI was outstanding.
[TLG] Arrendek : I think the automated workers are fine, you can already give them precise orders (only work near this city..)
[Guest53473] [-- Agrees with Arrendek : A way to give workers orders for building specific improvements would be useful, also to contain them to a city area "Build up X and Y within the squares of the closest city only"
[gamadictG] Since Civ is such a well-known franchise...
[sgsmitty] really, who is going to sit on-line for hours on end for MP?
[CyberGnu] Soren, is the cultural reassimilation of concquered cities going to be fixed?
[Anunikoba] sgsmitty- a lot of us
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] Arrendek: make sure you look at the alternative automating command (road-to, build trade network, improve home city, clear jungle, clear polution, etc...)
[Sabre2th] lots of people smitty, but not as many as MPers would like to believe
[Nobody2] Or Irrigate tile X, mine tile Y, Z
[gamadictG] They probably could've turned it into a tennis sim, and still sold a decent ammount of compies...I don't think there's a huge number of people who won't buy it based upon that, relative to the numbers that don't care...
[Almostboughtit] sgsmitty---I didn't mean internet. I meant Lan playable.
[sgsmitty] I would not think so, unless you have no life
[Anunikoba] I have no life
[Fozzie76] Is it possible to bring back the right click menu for units? I had no idea you could do things like force a worker to not change things you've already built until I went through the hotkey list.
[TLG] And besides the best way to handle your workers is using your head :)))
[Arrendek] Will do, thanks.
[ACS_MarkG] Soren, you interview you said that the AI surprised you many times, making you wonder if you actually programmed it to do that! Can you give an example?
[Almostboughtit] sgsmitty---Internet games like this suck cause when you start winning, people quit.
[Guest53473] Once again, I agree with Anunikoba :)
[sgsmitty] PBEM - possible
[ACS_MarkG] "you" = "in your"
[gamadictG] I have no life, either...
[Almostboughtit] sgsmitty--Actually a MP game shouldn't take any longer than a single player. Set consectutive turns a put on a time limit.
[gamadictG] But I'm way too impation to play TBS multiplayer...
[ACS_MarkG] Dan, will this friday's update have the patch? ;)
*** Dan_Magaha_FIRAXIS has quit IRC (Ping timeout.)
[LoQtus] what's this thing called 'life' that I keep hearing people talk about? ;)
[ACS_MarkG] i ask about the patch and the firaxis net connection drops :)
[Anunikoba] lol @ MarkG
[Wexu] =)
[Guest53473] ACS: I've had pre-espionage Civs head straight for undefended or poorly defended cities, ignoring all others in their path.
[Sunstone2] ..1SOREN: thats right !
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] well, one time the Chinese contacted me and asked for a mutual protection pact. I turned them down and they immediately signed a military alliance with the Romans against me. Doh!
[Almostboughtit] LoQtus---Yeah people will play Everquest and DAOC for 10 hours a night, why not CIV 3 also?
[LoQtus] Markos, I guess he didn't like that question :)
[gamadictG] I gots a question...
[gamadictG] In any Civ, did anyone here ever pick to play as the Zulus...??
[Nobody2] I did
[Guest53473] (14 Hours straight is my record on Civ III, FYI)
[LoQtus] what else to do with one's night? :)
[Wexu] gamadictG, my girlfriend did. ;)
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] so I have a question for you guys...
[Nobody2] Yeah?
[Almostboughtit] gamadictG---No I always plade as Russians or Americans. Never Zulus athough they always seemed to be tough in the beginning of the game.
