Civ3 Patch&Chat Friday, February 15, 2002
The second civ3 patch was almost here, and we discussed the new changes on
our irc channel with Firaxis!
In red, the operator. In
blue, Firaxis team members. Many thanks to
Jeff Morris, Dan Magaha, Soren Johnson, Javier Sobrado, Mike Breitkreutz and
Barry Caudill
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[notyoueither] And Mike. Able to land on carrier flag?
[SirRalph] starmouse: hardly, they were just built in the attacked city to ambush the attackers
[Asher274] korn you use cruise missles?
[Sirotnikov] isn't that a game flag, rather than editor flag?
[King_of_Camelot] Please answer quick...I gotta go real soon
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] provost: well, you have to thank whoever posted that solution on Apolyton. I feel dumb that I didn't think of it earlier. (of course, it did require some code work, like in the Civilopedia)
[notyoueither] More beer
[hardjoy] 3I asked before, I'll ask again : why does the AI expand like a madman, instead of relying on colonies and protecting their territory?
[ProvostHarrison] I never saw it on Poly, but I was playing with the mod file last night and I was quite impressed, a real neat bit of problemsolving...makes perfect sense too.
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] King_of_Camelot: I'm not sure about the disorder flcs -- I didn't program the animations.
[hardjoy] it seems no real colonial situation comes up
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] cities are much more permanent than colonies, so they are a better general solution
[korn469] right now you can edit cruise missiles so that Aegis cruisers and submarines can carry them, but only submarines can carry tactical nukes, by setting cruise missiles as foot soldiers, but this would be a simpler way of doing it
[Libertarian] I've seen lots of AI colonies.
[starmouse] I think the AI expands quickly to counter the ICS strategy. It is too easy to cover half the map without the AI doing anything much otherwise
[hardjoy] soren : ok, but doesn't itt spoil the colony concept a bit?
[hardjoy] they never get used
[korn469] asher, yea cruise missiles can kill units, so i think they are ok
[Asher274] iv seen ai colonies but only when its near my territory
[King_of_Camelot] Ok thanks anyways....bye!
[Beard_Rinker] Have you guys (Firaxis) though about allowing users a mechanism to write their own AI?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] well, colonies are special case solutions when you don't want to waste a city in really bad terrain. They are much more useful on BIG maps
[ProvostHarrison] Colonies would be used more (1)if they weren't assimilated by an enemy and (2) they could connect directly via sea route (ie, colony on another island)
[Sirotnikov] they already said no
[Sirotnikov] but they haven't denied scripting ... yet ;)
[Asher274] be careful or civ IV will be just bare bones and leave the game up to us
[Libertarian] Beard: There IS one. It's called C++
[Sirotnikov] asher, that would mean an excellent game
[Beard_Rinker] Yes, but you need a library to interface with.
[notyoueither] asher. that would be great as a beta
[korn469] soren, here is a question about hidden nationality...will the AI capture or burn your cities with hidden nationality units if it is your ally?
[Sirotnikov] while the programming work is often too hard for us fans
[hardjoy] soren : thx, but big maps are slow ;) life is not easy, I guess
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] beard: that was beyond the scope of our resources
[Fnbrown] 5And here I was trying to write my own AI in BASIC
[JohnPaulJones] any chance we can get privateers to capture ships ?
[Sirotnikov] the ideas and standards that we invent are great
[korn469] mike here is another request
[Asher274] i use assembler
[Asher274] and fortran
[ProvostHarrison1] True, I suppose in the middle of a vast mountain range that could take 1000s of years to reach
[Fnbrown] 5Fortran... with punch cards...
[Asher274] its a slow turn based system
[Rpodos] I understand that the AI needs its own ICS strategy, but some of the city placements just don't nake sense... like in the middle of my first 4-5 cities.
[starmouse] copy con: civ4.exe
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] colonies were added simply to answer the "what if I don't want to build a city to get a resource" question.
[Sirotnikov] lol
[korn469] could u add in an all nationalities/U.N. flag? so that attacking a unit with this flag would be the same as attacking all of the civs either in the game or on the U.N. concil
[_john] jpat@vergina:~] ps -auxww|grep http|wc -l
[_john] 122
[_john] oups sorry
[Rpodos] Nice one korn
[ProvostHarrison1] riiiiiiiight
[hardjoy] korn : interesting idea
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] korn: interesting idea. don't mpp's sort of do that?
[Acooper] Lovit kinr
[korn469] kind of
[korn469] but this is different
[Acooper] korn
[Sirotnikov] nice idea korn
[Rpodos] Not really, only if every one is in the right combo of MPPs.
[korn469] if you had the un you could build U.N. peacekeeprs with this flag
[Acooper] who would control the un troops?
[Fnbrown] 5[--- thinks there should be a "weed" luxury resource... can only trade if you have espionage...
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] everything is a balance. there are literally 1,000+ great ideas that could have gone into Civ3, but you have to draw the line somewhere.
[korn469] maybe not give them an attack
[Fnbrown] 5Imagine that... getting a "sell pot" option in your espionage screen..
[korn469] but they could be used to keep areas safe
[Sirotnikov] soren, no you don't. that's what mods are for ;)
[Asher274] i would have like to see expanding resource issue addressed
[Rpodos] Understood... BTW,you guys have done a fantastic job.
[Godking] UN Troops- Barbarians of the modern age..... Just an idea.
[hardjoy] fnbrown : lol
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] Asher: What issue would that be?
[ImmortalWombat] soren: which is why you put scripting in, so the possibilities extend even further, and the player decides where to set them
[Asher274] you cant mod more resources than the base into the game
[ProvostHarrison] Yeah, I don't quite understand that Glonky...
[korn469] yea i agree you guys have done a good job so far :)
[Asher274] whats the number? 24?
[notyoueither] Ha! Blue helmets insurrection near Cumae
[Rpodos] LOL
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] actually, i think gamemakers should reconsider having "complexity levels" as well as "difficulty levels". Could solve that problem of making a game which appeals to the hard-core as well as the masses. "Lords of Conquest" is a good example.
[JohnPaulJones] :)
[SirRalph] Massive UN uprising
[Rpodos] LOL2
[Sirotnikov] lol @ un jokes
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] Asher: That's actually a hard-coded art issue (which is why there is no "add" button). The editor actually has no problem with additional resources. I hope to address this at some point.
[notyoueither] Yer right SirRalph
[Asher274] i hear ya
[korn469] mike, does the same thing apply to specialists?
[korn469] i'd like to add a culture specialist to my mod
[Godking] that would be great mike!!! 8-)
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] Yes and no. Specialists are a little more complex but it's basically the same problem.
[starmouse] question about barbarians - why are there only "massive uprisings"? Why not have small ones as well (say, six barb units or so)?
[Asher274] hey firaxis have you all played with the graphic mods? you likey?
[korn469] ok
[hardjoy] another civ-question : why not go all the way with stacked combat, a la Warlords, which had a simple stacked combat system?
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] I've checked out some of Sn00py's mods -- nicely done.
[Sirotnikov] How many people are working on support of Civ 3 now, compared to it's intial developement?
[Ironikinit] could heroes be modified with the editor? specifically in their appearance
[Asher274] good q sirot
[SirRalph] starmouse: this # depends on your barb setting
[ImmortalWombat] hardjoy - that would probably mean recoding a lot of the game
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] Sirotnikov: A lot less artists for one thing...
[Sirotnikov] 10x
[Sirotnikov] and programmers / developers / idea makers? ;)
[Fnbrown] 5[---- would like to see a "wonder woman" great leader graphic mod...
[ProvostHarrison] Hehe
[Acooper] I want spiderman
[Asher274] there are 2 doods with beer and a trs80 workind diligently
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] we still have about 3.5 programmers working on it... more or less
[JohnPaulJones] Do barbarian encounters ever produce great leaders ?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] argh, I've been cut in half!
[starmouse] siralph - i always set it on raging .. but it would be nice to have a greater variety of numbers. one and 24 isn't enough variety, needs something in between
[Fnbrown] who's the .5? Some oompa loompa?
[_john] hahaha
[SirRalph] what does the half guy?
[ACS_MarkG] hey icedan
[hardjoy] 3so, stacked combat, is it considered for future patches?
[Asher274] he just moves the mouse
[Godking] or gets the beer
[Rob333] probably means 3 full-time and 1 part-time
[hardjoy] would make life simpler in the late game
[Asher274] lol
[hardjoy] with zillions of units
[Acooper] .5 goes out for lunch and doesn't come back
[ACS_MarkG] hardjoy, stacked combat=army
[SirRalph] stacked combat is probably not a good idea
[ImmortalWombat] army = impossible
[hardjoy] mark : armies are not stacked combat all the way
[ProvostHarrison] Ah, one thing I would like to see an option to toggle is the 4 turn fastest tech rate on and off...
[The_Zealot] not a good idea?
[Schee] 3Is it possible to make Jeanne d'Arc's hair grow ?
[Sn00py] hello mark
[The_Zealot] are you crazy?
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] true stacked combat would require some significant AI changes. Not to say it's a bad idea or won't be done...
[Asher274] what about natural disasters?
[JohnPaulJones] yeah?
[Sn00py] these servers are bloody slow
[ACS_MarkG] hardjoy, true but it's something
[hagbart] 2stacked combat seems to automatic to me
[thebug40] what about making a wonder for armies/heroes? wonder allows you to create a hero say every 200 turns or somethign
[ImmortalWombat] soren: you aren't discounting it as a possibility? WOW! kudos
[SirRalph] no: you would like to keep comtrol, which unit attacks first and so on
[ACS_MarkG] snoopy, try a different one.
[JohnPaulJones] or how about the Olympic games as a portable wonder ?
[starmouse] provost - you can do that, use the editor to set it to 1 turn techs :)
[notyoueither] Soren. Gaga. CTP2 style combat may come to civ?
[Sn00py] okie dokie
[Acooper] Natural disatster please
[korn469] soren, i've bumped up the fighters bombard in my mod, and set intercept to 90% but bombers still have better bombard, will the AI realize to send in its fighters first to clear out enemy fighters? or would it still send in the bombers first?
[ProvostHarrison] I never noticed that :-D
[ACS_MarkG] "possible" is always better than "no" :D
[ProvostHarrison] *loads up editor as we speak to check*
[ImmortalWombat] mark: indeed
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] just remember that everything is possible...
[ImmortalWombat] ND - SLICed in CtP2
[Sn00py] thank you germany for your superior technology
[ImmortalWombat] (natural disasters that is)
[Acooper] everything is possible! WOO HOO!!
[ACS_MarkG] even adding slic ;)
[Rpodos] There is no spear.
[Sn00py] so, what have I missed?
[Ironikinit] natural disasters would require random events, right
[Sirotnikov] sure, and moeny grows on trees
[notyoueither] Firafians. U da doods!
[Godking] weather , natural disasters, etc. If only I knew how...
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] and while I'm at it... different people think different things!
[ProvostHarrison] No problem, I never noticed you could do that before...(change the tech limit)
[notyoueither] Firaxians! Firaxians! damit
[Asher274] lightning
[Acooper] Like me and Lib
[SirRalph] nye: what do you smoke?
[ImmortalWombat] GodKing - swap games
[Ironikinit] random events would be nice
[ACS_MarkG] snoopy, soren just said they are going to include your graphics in the next patch!
[Fnbrown] 5Gotta run... once again, thanks, Soren....et al... good work!
[hagbart] 5I just made a map with the improved editor (undo function) it was quite fun/easy
[Asher274] i would like to see my workers bust out in a brawl once in a while
[ProvostHarrison] He smokes irritating people called SirRalph ;-)
[Sn00py] hey, are you firaxians using my graphics? good boy
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] mark: did I say that?
[Godking] I have, but I always come back.
[Sirotnikov] hehe
[starmouse] random events were a pain in CIV ... an earthquake destroys your temple, instant riot ...
[ProvostHarrison] Hey, perhaps you could get workers to play football against another nations workers now and again ;-)
[ACS_MarkG] well, so you didnt :D
[Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1] Sn00py: I've checked out some of them-- nice work.
[notyoueither] SirRalph. Lots of nic
[Sirotnikov] i'm not sure whether i've been asleep
[Sirotnikov] or is mark being funny
[Acooper] football or soccer
[JohnPaulJones] strmouse : temples prevented earthquakes ;)
[Sirotnikov] ah, he's funny :)
[SirRalph] hehe
[Sn00py] I want to do some better ones but the cd is at my dads house, bugger!!
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] snOOpy, we do like your work. I'm just not privy to the plans...
[ProvostHarrison] Temples prevented volcano eruptions...
[hardjoy] 3havent seen the new editor yet : any minimap in there?
[ProvostHarrison] Well, not the eruptions themselves, but people running from them...
[Ironikinit] yeah, that was a little hokey
[Sn00py] privy?
[ACS_MarkG] hardjoy, no
[Soren_Johnson_Firaxis] art is not my domain...
[hagbart] nope no minimap :(
[starmouse] ah, that's right ... been a while since I played the original game
[Ironikinit] would be nice if there was a disease model
[hardjoy] mark : too bad
[ProvostHarrison] Perhaps you should be able to build 'giant volcano bung' to prevent volcano eruptions ;-)
[JohnPaulJones] whatever Provost lol
[starmouse] provost LOL
[Ironikinit] and after the plague, your remaining pop would be resistant
[korn469] soren any chance of being able to unload units from armies? also did u know that you can load units into armies from anywhere? as far as the rules go i think this may be a bug, but please don't fix it!
[ACS_MarkG] i'm surprised noone came up with a small utility so far...
[Acooper] Disease in jungles and flood plains is already there
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