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Warlord
Wollongong, Australia
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Aug 2000
time: 11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
I found that he used a new compression program, 7z for some of the files. Contrary to the suggestion on the site, I couldn't unzip them with WinRAR. You can download the 7z program from a link on Catfish's site. |
7-Zip has been around for years. Recent versions of WinRAR can extract 7z archives.
quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
There are also some event-related sounds in an unknown (to me) format. Can you enlighten, Catfish? |
They're just WAV files minus the extension. Civ2 includes the file extension in the event strings for the PlayWaveFile action. I want these strings as small as possible; in this case, just 2 characters plus the null terminator (3 bytes). Simply removing the file extensions frees up 248 bytes of events space in WotR. That's the best part of another event.
quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
The first few turn's moves must be very precise. No surprise there. Note to self: I must reread the appendix portion dealing with the movement of the Black Riders in the Shire. |
That's true, but the source material on the Hunt for the Ring won't be of much help. The Nazgul's positions have been randomised to some degree both temporally and spatially, otherwise the scenario becomes too predictable. I have played the opening to this scenario more times than I can remember. It's still a challenge for me - which is what I want, but I'm not averse to lowering the Nazgul's stats a little if enough people find it too challenging at the default level of difficulty (I'll do that and see how it pans out).
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techumseh
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Emperor
of the frozen North.
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Apr 1999
time: 18:30
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My third attempt has been more successful. Going roundabout to approach Bree from the south, I got the hobbits into the town, and picked up Aragorn. Realizing I'd forgotten to pick up the elven-swords at the Barrow-downs, I sent Sam back for them.
A Nazgul attacked Bree from the west and killed a Ranger unit I had moved in a turn earlier. Then the Witch-King and another Nazgul moved up from the south. I had no choice but to break out to the west, so I attacked the damaged Nazgul with Aragorn and moved west on the road, led by a wounded Aragorn, leaving Sam behind, and the residents of Bree to their fate.
Sam moved south of the road towards Rivendell, and when Glorfindel arrived, I sent him out to bring in Sam. Once Aragorn had recovered in Rivendell, the Fellowship headed south, meeting Sam and Glorfindel along the way. They made their way south without too much more excitement, and are now "safe" inside Moria.
More to come.....
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Warlord
Wollongong, Australia
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Aug 2000
time: 11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain
This scenario is just awesome. All my hobbits died on the first turn. |
quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain
Although in the marshes I couldn't dodge the Nazguls  |
The AI sometimes sends the Winged Nazgul in the direction of Lorien, especially if you stack your front lines with powerful defenders like Gandalf the White or Legolas. I'm sure the Elves are thrilled. If enough of them head that way, Lorien can end up falling to Mordor. It's very rare, though. Generally, it's Gondor who has to deal with the bulk of them. I guess you got unlucky, being intercepted by a Nazgul en route to Lorien. I've had Elven-boats attacked by Winged Nazgul on the Anduin; not completely out of place, after all, in the book Legolas shot one down in that region.
BTW, there are little hidey-holes in the Dead Marshes, but they're probably not much help against Winged Nazgul which can attack before you know they're there.
quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
I had no choice but to break out to the west, so I attacked the damaged Nazgul with Aragorn and moved west on the road, led by a wounded Aragorn, leaving Sam behind, and the residents of Bree to their fate. |
Nazgul cannot capture cities, but wolves and barrow-wights (if you've elected not to research Tom Bombadil) can. Having cities captured by barrow-wights (Nature) isn't half as bad as allowing Mordor to take them, though.
quote:
Originally posted by Arthedain
Believe me, Moria is all but safe  |
Several times I've managed to waltz right through Moria without being attacked by the Balrog at all. The Balrog begins every game in the same position, but its whereabouts are impossible to predict. Anyway, it should be a little easier now; I upgraded Boromir, Legolas and Gimli to veteran status in the latest version.
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Warlord
Wollongong, Australia
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Aug 2000
time: 11:30
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I play-tested the scenario last night. The siege of Minas Tirith and the assault by Harad and the Corsairs was very tough. Two weeks ago I fixed a couple of AI performance issues, so they (Harad and the Easterlings) now fight more effectively with the same number of troops; plus I discovered a Civ2 bug which switched off Mordor's mobilisation flag early (fixed a week ago). These fixes, in combination, make the scenario much tougher than the last time I played. I may soften Mordor's assault – a little.
I lost Boromir in Moria to the Balrog, Gandalf the Grey to orcs in Moria, after finishing off the Balrog, then Sam in the Dead Marshes (to Easterlings), Gandalf the White to the Winged Nazgul Lord in Minas Tirith (Gwaihir delivered some payback, though), Gimli and Legolas to Grond in Minas Tirith, Faramir to the Haradrim in Pelargir, and finally Frodo in the heart of Mordor (one turn out from Mt Doom - aargh) to uruks on turn 61. Lost Minas Tirith on the same turn. Went to bed after that. Managed to evade Shelob completely in Cirith Ungol. I captured Isengard on turn 53 using Ents + Eagles + Grey Company + Eomer and the horse boys. Moronic Rohan allies decided to fortify spearmen over the northern entrance to the Paths of the Dead (I've had this happen before, but it's very rare). Half-way through researching The Muster of Rohan.
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techumseh
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Emperor
of the frozen North.
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Apr 1999
time: 18:30
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While I like the sounds ripped from the films, Catfish, there are some relic sounds in them, eg. the Orc sounds include some (human) heavy breathing. I guess some people just go for short, dark and scaley.
While playing last night I fought an ongoing duel between my Gondor knights and the cavalry of Harad. During the course of the battle, I heard my cat meowing in the next room. I went to check on her, and there she lay, on the couch, doing nothing. I went back to the game, and before long I heard her again.
I went back to the other room, and she looked up at me as if to ask, what do you want?
Returning to the game, I was sure I heard her once more. But again, she was just dozing on the couch.
Once more I resumed my game, only to hear the cat again. Finally, a light went on and I methodically moved up some Gondor knights up to attack the Haradrim. At the end of each attack, sure enough, there was the sound of a cat's meow. I had solved the mystery, but wasted nearly half an hour, and two valuable knights.
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Mercator
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Super Moderator
Sorekara no Nanimo
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Jan 1970
time: 02:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Catfish
You've got the date set and everything planned?  |
The only thing I've got planned is not dying for the next 50+ years. 
quote:
No, I only know as much as I've stated on the WotR download page. I used the attached events file to test it in the Original game with the Romans, Mongols and Japanese. I took advantage of the bug in WotR when I remapped the events flags. |
Thanks for that test file. I found the problem. Even more, I found a workaround too. That does require an extra event, though.
Let's start at the beginning:
- Events are executed at the start of each turn
- There are 8 * 32 flags, flags 0 to 31 for each civ.
- Here we arrive at our first problem: Barbarian flags can be set, but they can't actually be checked for. CheckFlag doesn't work with Barbarian flags.
- By default, flags are only set for one turn. If you want them to last longer, you need to use the Continuous modifier.
- Now we arrive at our second problem: the continuous modifier is only stored once for each set of flags. That is, flag 0 of all civs share one continuous state, flag 1 another, etc. So you can't have flag 0 of the Romans not be continuous, and have flag 0 of the Japanese be continuous at the same time. In fact, if you set flag X for multiple civilizations in separate events, the last event to be triggered will determine the continuous state, depending on whether it used the Continuous modifier or not.
- The most important problem, however, is this: not only is the continuous modifier ignored when you clear a flag (off is the default state, so there's nothing to remember). When you clear a flag, the continuous state is reset along with it.
So that is what is happening. You switch a flag for one civ off, which also clears the continuous state. The other civs' flags are still set at this point, but since the continuous state is cleared, they too are reset the next turn.
And now for the workaround... While you can't check for barbarian flags, you can still set them. If you follow the event in which you clear flag X with an event where you set that same flag X for the Barbarians (using the Continuous modifier), the continuous state is saved and the other civs don't lose their flag X.
I've attached your test events file again, but with one extra event added at the end that fixes the bug.
You seem to have little space left for events, so I don't know whether you can restore all the flags again, but you might be able to save some. And you might be able to add the workaround to some existing events, so you don't lose the space.
 Attachment: events.txt
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).
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Warlord
Wollongong, Australia
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Aug 2000
time: 11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Mercator
I found the problem. Even more, I found a workaround too. |
quote:
Originally posted by Mercator
Now we arrive at our second problem: the continuous modifier is only stored once for each set of flags. |
Yeah, it's a bit short-sighted.
quote:
Originally posted by Mercator
And now for the workaround... While you can't check for barbarian flags, you can still set them. If you follow the event in which you clear flag X with an event where you set that same flag X for the Barbarians (using the Continuous modifier), the continuous state is saved and the other civs don't lose their flag X. |
Excellent idea. Always good to have more options.
quote:
Originally posted by Mercator
You seem to have little space left for events, so I don't know whether you can restore all the flags again, but you might be able to save some. And you might be able to add the workaround to some existing events, so you don't lose the space. |
The events file is full; I need space for 16 Delayed events. Surprisingly, I was able to remap the events flags matrix with only slight loss. It left 2 flags without a home (Mordor and Isengard are full). I tossed out one fairly lame event (well, 2 in combo) that used one. The other flag I moved to an unused slot that gets checked under the Everybody umbrella in the early part of the scenario. The relocated flag only becomes functional in the later part of the scenario. There's no conflict. So everything should be sweet without extra Barbarian flag events. There are a total of 91 events flags in use in the current version of WotR. Before I reassigned the flags, the bug affected 19 of them.
[Edit: It just occurred to me that I have two events that turn on flags for a single turn (ie, no Continuous modifier). Those flags are shared by other tribes for which the Continuous modifier is applied. Potentially, I could have flags that were meant to be switched on for a single turn made continuous by other Flag action events. Will find a workaround and upload.]
I've made a few changes to my version of the scenario to make it a little easier. I'll see if I can get around to testing it shortly. If the changes pass muster, I'll upload it.
Last edited by Catfish on 09-10-2008 at 06:08
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Warlord
Wollongong, Australia
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Aug 2000
time: 11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
1. My fellowship units breezed through Moria, without any real problem. The Balrog appeared once, but didn't attack a fortified Gandalf, who covered the movements of the rest. |
I'm not sure whether that's due to Gandalf's defence total or just the randomness of the AI. The Balrog will attack a fortified Gandalf on Durin's Bridge (+150% defensive bonus). I may need to investigate again. A very long time ago I ran some pretty comprehensive tests with Gandalf vs The Balrog, starting with Boco's Civ2 Combat Probability Calculator and then moving on to real-game simulations. Their stats haven't changed since. The Balrog is quite capable of taking down half the party. What level of difficulty are you playing?
quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
The route to the Bridge of Khazad-dum is simple and direct. Few orcs appeared and were easily dispatched. |
Yes, I don't want a maze and I don't want that section to drag. In some games I've been bogged down in Moria, unable to get out as Fellowship members were continually weakened by orc attacks - I guess that's what happened to Arthedain. In others, I've breezed through. I guess it depends on the random movements of the AI to some degree. There's always someone who's in need of healing at Lorien. I upgraded Boromir, Legolas and Gimli to veterans in the latest version. That makes a difference. Not enough orcs? That can be remedied.
quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
2. The fellowship had only arrived at Rauros [b]after[b/] the launch of Mordor's main attack and after the fall of Helm's Deep. Given normal delays caused by occasional injured units, it should be possible to have fellowship units in place to help defend Helm's Deep and Minas Tirith, and to have Frodo at or near Minas Morgul. |
It is, but it's difficult. I usually get Frodo into Cirith Ungol by around turn 55. It's simple for me to delay Isengard's and Mordor's main assaults in events. If I delay Mordor's assault for too long, the game becomes less of a challenge. It certainly plays a lot differently to Harlan's LotR scenario, which was on for young and old from the start.
In what turn did Helm's Deep fall? I've been tweaking Isengard's mobilisation and troop numbers, as well as Rohan's defenders, to get that right.
I should have another version up in about half an hour; mainly to fix the last of the events flags bugs (see edit in previous post).
Last edited by Catfish on 09-10-2008 at 07:36
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Warlord
Wollongong, Australia
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Aug 2000
time: 11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Boco
Thanks for starting the test, Catfish. |
I didn't. | |
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. With Boromir, Legolas and Gimli starting the scenario as veterans, it should be a little easier. I uploaded another version about 5 minutes ago.