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Deity
Lurking occasionally
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Mar 2003
time: 18:35
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Paulson isn't concerned with taxes. Bush will make sure his taxes are low. He's concerned with banks making profit.
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King
Just one more thing
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Aug 2001
time: 02:35
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Your Urgent Help Needed
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion
dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may
know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names
of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person
who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to
wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with
detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury,
Paulson
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Deity
Lurking occasionally
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Mar 2003
time: 18:35
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Warren Buffet today said something that supports what PLATO has been saying about the proposed bailout. He said the government better leverage up, because no one wants to leverage up right now, including him. In fact, he said he can't.
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Emperor
Eternal
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Nov 2005
time: 21:35
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quote:
The government wants to spend $700 billion to bail out Wall Street. What's the quickest way to set up a massive failing firm? [/Stephen Colbert] |
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Deity
Los Angeles, CA, USA
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Feb 1999
time: 18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious
Paulson isn't concerned with taxes. Bush will make sure his taxes are low. He's concerned with banks making profit. |
They're ignoring Zkribbler's First Rule of Taxation: Taxes aren't determined by the tax rates but rather by the spending rates. For every dollar that goes out, one has to come in.
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Prince
Monster Island
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Apr 1999
time: 02:35
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I don't see any reason why we shouldn't get as good terms as Buffet did.
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Deity
Lurking occasionally
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Mar 2003
time: 18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
which means that later, the principal must be paid back with interest (using either [a] or [b]). |
Plainly, No. That is absolutely always untrue.
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"Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency."
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Prince
Monster Island
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Apr 1999
time: 02:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Plato in the precursor thread "Lehman" (pg. 17)
It is not so much that a lot of this paper is leveraged. Most of the leveraged positions have been hedged with credit default swaps...and then those positions have been hedged with credit default swaps...and so on. This is one of the real problems we are facing. No one knows how much is out there in credit default swaps...there is no clearing house or any records of this stuff except the agreements themselves. Part of what is causing Treasury's urgency...Lehman's $600 billion in debt was something the government and the markets figured that they could stand...what they didn't realize was the nearly $1.7 trillion in credit default swaps tied to that debt and the effect that is going to have on other institutions. |
Credit default swaps are possibly the worst financial instrument ever invented. Why exactly would you even want to spread the risk of investments as broadly as possible? The risk of investment is the only thing that prevents people from making bad investments.
Last edited by Vanguard on 25-09-2008 at 12:54
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Emperor
listening too long to one song
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Mar 2002
time: 20:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandman
Your Urgent Help Needed
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion
dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you.
I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may
know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transactin is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names
of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person
who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to
wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with
detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully Minister of Treasury,
Paulson |
awesome! copy/paste/fwd
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Prince
Monster Island
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Apr 1999
time: 02:35
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I liked this comment from http://bigpicture.typepad.com/
quote:
AAA rated tulip backed securities.
The President explained all tonight. He wants the taxpayer to pay for all the tulip backed securities the banks hold, at prices just below what they were before the tulip mania burst. If the government holds them till term, the tulip backed securities will return to full value and make the taxpayer a profit. This will in turn stabilize the price of the tulips in the tulip gardens all Americans have in their backyards. The bailout is now a no brainer for me. Thank you Mr. President for clearing it all up. dc. |
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Deity
Lurking occasionally
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Mar 2003
time: 18:35
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Bernanke is pissing me off as well, saying that we need to make sure this doesn't happen again. That's what they said after the Great Depression and his type ****ed everything up again, only to ask for this bailout and repeat the same words.
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Deity
Lurking occasionally
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Mar 2003
time: 18:35
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The WSJ online is reporting that the bailout agreement likely won't include benefits to those facing home foreclosure. This is a pure give away to the financial industry.
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Deity
of Rocks.
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Sep 2001
time: 18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Vanguard
Credit default swaps are possibly the worst financial instrument ever invented. Why exactly would you even want to spread the risk of investments as broadly as possible? The risk of investment is the only thing that prevents people from making bad investments. |
If you're the one holding the bag of course you want everyone else to take a share. The real question is why would anyone else buy any?
Still you have to thank Phil Gram for the CDSs.
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Deity
Los Angeles, CA, USA
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Feb 1999
time: 18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Should have known better than to expect the Democratic congress to have backbone.  
What a bunch of self-dealing. Declaring all sorts of losers as winners. It makes me sick. 
Throw all these bums out. |
Oh, DanS -- 
quote:
Lawmakers agree on bailout principles to protect taxpayers and ensure oversight.
By Tami Luhby, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: September 25, 2008: 2:36 PM ET
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Lawmakers have reached agreement on a bipartisan counterproposal to the Bush administration's $700 billion financial bailout plan.
Both parties and the House and Senate agreed Thursday to a set of principles on revisions to the rescue plan, which calls for the Treasury Department to buy up bad mortgage securities from banks in an effort to get them to lend again.
The proposal will help homeowners, curb executive pay packages at participating firms and provide oversight of Treasury's actions, said Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Conn., a key architect of the congressional effort. He did not provide details but said lawmakers will sit down with Treasury officials to discuss it.
"We've reached a fundamental agreement on a set of principles, one, for taxpayers, which is tremendously important," Dodd said. "We're very confident we can act expeditiously."
At least one prominent Republican says matters still aren't settled.
"House Republicans have not agreed to any plan at this point," said John Boehner, R-Ohio, minority leader.
Instead of receiving the entire sum at one time, Treasury will receive the money in installments, with $250 billion in bailout funds available immediately, the Wall Street Journal reported. Lawmakers also said the deal calls for the government to receive stock warrants of participating companies, the Journal said.
Administration officials said they were pleased that progress is being made.
"We'll want to hear from Secretary Paulson, and take a look at the details," said Tony Fratto, a White House spokesman. "We look forward to a good discussion at the meeting this afternoon."
The provisions that Congress wants to add to the administration's plan should make Americans "legitimately feel better about the overall approach," said Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., who heads the House Financial Services Committee.
Taxpayers would be protected under the congressional version of the bailout, said Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Ala., the top Republican on the House Financial Services Committee. Congress' additions to the proposal call for the Treasury to be "reimbursed for their expenditures," he said.
Lawmakers said they wanted to send a message to the markets to calm down. Wall Street heard the message, sending the Dow Jones Industrial Average up more than 300 points after the agreement was announced. It then settled back to a gain of 200 points
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Emperor
Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
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Jan 1970
time: 03:35
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I don't see why you'd be against CDS unless you find all forms of insurance distasteful (spreading risk is the whole essence of the insurance industry). They aren't for free and the riskier the more you have to cough up for protection. The real issue is the lack of transparency and oversight in the markey.
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Deity
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
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Apr 1999
time: 02:35
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I wonder how many of those houses we're buying have been gutted?
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Deity
of Rocks.
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Sep 2001
time: 18:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Colon™
I don't see why you'd be against CDS unless you find all forms of insurance distasteful (spreading risk is the whole essence of the insurance industry). They aren't for free and the riskier the more you have to cough up for protection. The real issue is the lack of transparency and oversight in the markey. |
We definately don't have enough transparency or over sight, on that we can agree.
I'm curious to learn more about the mechanics of exactly how a credit default swap works so if someone knows exactly I would love to hear it. My incomplete understanding is that CDSs are a type of derivative which only is triggered if someone defaults on a debt. The person who wishes to be "insured" pays a certain amount each quarter for five years and if a default on the covered debt occurs then the "under writer" (for lack of a better term) agrees to pay up? Is this correct? Is it also correct that there are many layers of CDSs as each company has tried to insure and reinsure themselves and this is why the total CDS market is larger then the entire GDP of the planet?
If we've decided that the regular insurance market needs to be regulated to prevent shady practices then why does this pseudo form of insurance not have any/many regulations? Surely it would be possible to be shady with CDS just like with regular insurance maybe even more so because derivatives are so complicated in and of themselves making CDSs even more open for abuse.
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Deity
Los Angeles, CA, USA
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Feb 1999
time: 18:35
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