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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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your comments on current and upcoming releases, the state of HW and SW, PC exclusives, concurrent releases and relative quality and sales vs consoles, PC games that are being ported to console or given console versions vs console games ported to PC, initiative to "save" PC gaming like the PC Gaming alliance, your comments on the NPD numbers and their accuracy, the relevance of the european market vs NA, piracy, direct to drive sales, MMOs and whether they are saving or killing PC games, casual games, the PC and the console life cycle, etc, etc.
TRY, if possible to keep it to RECENT things and not to the things one could have posted in 2004 or earlier.
To get us started:
Valve at least, claims to think the platform is far from dead:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?o...=1&limitstart=0
Last edited by lord of the mark on 02-06-2008 at 00:27
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Emperor
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Mar 2002
time: 23:36
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Another problem with these discussions is that people compare PC, on the one hand, and all the other consoles on the other. Instead, they should compare individual platforms, like PC versus Xbox, PC versus PS3, etc., etc. In other words, the journalists and the analysts are are doing a lousy job. No surprise there.
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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Nostromo
Another problem with these discussions is that people compare PC, on the one hand, and all the other consoles on the other. Instead, they should compare individual platforms, like PC versus Xbox, PC versus PS3, etc., etc. In other words, the journalists and the analysts are are doing a lousy job. No surprise there. |
I was thinking more in terms of the health of the platform period, not a comparison per se. Console gaming has clearly grown in over the last several console gens, and this one is no exception, and we're still at phase of the console cycle where consoles are continuing to grow (from what I can gather)
But then handheld gaming has grown, and so has mobile phone gaming. even faster than console gaming, IIUC. Yet no one says console gaming is doomed on that account, and the growth of consoles in general, even of the xbox, may not mean that the PC is doomed as a platform. Now that doesnt mean there arent genres and subgenres where the PC is in direct competition with another platform. And its not to deny that the shift of some key genres toward the 360 in particular has created issues for the whole PC "ecosystem"
But it does mean that simply showing that all consoles, or even one console, sells more SW worldwide, or just in the US, or just in the US excluding certain categories of revenues, does not show the PC to be "dying".
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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wiglaf
Tell this to WoW, or Starcraft 2, or The Sims, or COD4... |
Does COD4 really belong on this list? WOW is an MMORPG, a genre the PC still dominates, and is apparently the dominant revenue generator on the PC. The Sims series is, I guess, the second biggest revenue generator for the PC, despite some relatively minor console versions/ports. SC2 is an upcoming release of an RTS, again a PC dominant genre, that will (I guess) be released PC exclusive, and will be important for the platform.
COD4 though - was a multiplatform release that did much better on the consoles - though I guess it sold enough on the PC to more than justify the cost of the coding. That should keep the PC getting either simultaneous releases, or slightly later ports of FPS, but it hardly represents the kind of dominance the other 3 example you list do.
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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
quote:
But then handheld gaming has grown, and so has mobile phone gaming. even faster than console gaming, IIUC. Yet no one says console gaming is doomed on that account, and the growth of consoles in general, even of the xbox, may not mean that the PC is doomed as a platform. |
Did it ever occur to you that the reason why people say PC gaming is doomed isn't cause consoles sell more, it's cause PC game sales are falling?
Just a thought. |
except they almost certain havent. The only data showing they have are NPD data that even NPD doesnt think is close to complete.
Even me, quasi-luddite that I am, find the concept of Steam appealing (if only they had more games other than FPS's) Lots of anecdotal evidence that direct to drive sales have increased dramatically, and thats ignoring the subscription revenue model.
and of course NPD is the US.
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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by flash9286
COD4 is a prime example of why PC gaming is declining. Rampant pirating. |
Or at least sales of AAA FPS, the type of game that apparently most appeals to pirates.
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FrostyBoy
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Emperor
of Kiwis
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Aug 2001
time: 12:36
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Sorry, I got to defend myself a bit here. Bloody Asher is at it again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Rutherford No Rutherford? No quick ending to the War.
Asher, I bought an XBox360 for a few reasons, 1. to play GTA4, 2. to give my gf more "family orientated games" to play and 3. to see how consoles have improved since the 80's. To me, during the mid to late 90's, the console was just a gimmick, the PC owned the industry and in fact evolved from the great consoles of the 80's early 90's. To have evolved BACK into a console, questioned me, and after using the XBox360, I am quite impressed with the amount of attention Microsoft put into it and very impressed at the quality of the games, seems all games for the XBox360 are at the very least... decent. The worst game I played, was an arcade game, which was a remake of a classic Amiga game Llama Wars (good quick fun), but the remake sucked ass in comparison - but it was still decent, I would still give it a 3 out of 5. But I am comparing it to all other XBox360 games, if there were a lot of shitty games for the XBox, I would give that Llama remake a 1/5 easily. And that is the virus that PC's have. PC's have a huge quantity of awful games, but it also has the greatest quantity of the worlds best games, not only that, but it can play many of the old console games as well!
At the end of the day, the PC is a awesome machine for work, education, entertainment and fun. The XBox is barely even in the same league as a PC.
To me, the XBox is merely a device where Microsoft can control the industry to benefit itself.
Imagine a world, where there are no consoles, and in this world you can plug your PC into the TV and use wireless controllers just as easy as you can with your XBox. Then one day, a large company called Macrosoft releases a new machine called ZBox. What are you going to think? You're probably going to think that it is a dumbed down PC and you're wondering why the hell Macrosoft released this pretty piece of ****? When your PC can do all that it can do and far far more?
But in this world, PC's aren't getting that kind of attention from Microsoft; Microsoft have put a lot energy into their XBox, because if they don't, they will not have control over the industry, they will not have the strength they do now, to milk extra money from gamers.
When I said comparing XBox360 game sales to PC sales is like comparing dumbasses to educated people, I am simply saying that, in this world, there are always, ALWAYS, more uneducated people, who follow mainstream media than there are people who bother to educate themselves about what it is they are buying/doing. Why is this so? Because MOST people (who 'coincidently' have bought consoles to play games) don't care about games as much as you or I do, they don't know there are forums online where you can discuss games, and they wouldn't give a **** either. They just want some quick fun. and that's fine, but the way Microsoft has done it (and it's mostly thanks to ****ing Sony with their PS (Piece of ****)) is killing off gaming for us PC users.
But as the dust is now settling, dedicated PC players are starting to grow a kind of culture - one that is able to identify shitty games from great games, one that will only put money where it is deserved, one that will dedicate time and energy to games that earned it (unofficial websites, modifications, forums).
So again, in the end, PC gaming is not dead and is certainly not dying, it has simply matured and altered, evolved to adapt to the changes consoles have brought around. Evidently, the number of PC gamers has dropped, but those gamers are dedicated gamers, they are people who read reviews, look at every screenshot, question the developers, scold the publishers, improve the game through hard modifying. They are the car mechanics of Ferrari's. Make a simple mistake on a PC game? Fail. I say another 5 years, and the PC culture will have fine-tuned itself into a culture where only AAA games are allowed (or at the very least, proved to succeed, and succeed greatly).
Last edited by FrostyBoy on 04-06-2008 at 03:46
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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Here's a question. Let's take a "niche" PC game like Civilization.
The PC market is very healthy, right? Which platform is the next Civilization game coming out on? |
The port of Mass Effect to the PC doesnt threaten the 360. A version of Rock Band for the Wii doesnt threaten RBs position on the HD consoles. Im not sure Civ:Rev threatens the PC.
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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Uhhhh
You just compared ports to an exclusive?
Unless Civ:Rev is coming on the PC? |
why would civ:rev come to the PC? IIUC its a dumbed down version of Civ4. Theyre making a console "exclusive" instead of a port, for the same reason Wii tends to get "exclusives" instead of ports, IIUC.
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Deity
Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia - FUKCOV
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Dec 2000
time: 23:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
Do you really want me to explain to you why it is in Nvidia's interest to insist PC gaming isn't dying? |
That is certainly there interest. If the data they are working on in the PCGA on doesnt make their case, it will be very embarassing. I look forward to seeing it.
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