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Martin Gühmann
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Moderator
Berlin, Germany
Mar 2001
time: 23:26
16-06-2007 21:04 | www
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#1 | report |
GENERAL: E-Cafe III Support Apolyton buy from Amazon


Our famous cafe after 3 years of successful service needed a renovation. Yeah those 500 post made it necessary. But we are back in time to celbrate my birthday and still here at Apolyton avenue and CtP2 Source Code boulevard corner, downtown.

We are just bigger and better with new jokes, crazy stories and lot of fun.
You can bring your own coffee, cookies, beer and whiskey and those crazy stuff.

This cafe has been named after our currently most active member:


E


That's a nice ambiguity, isn't it.

To remind you why this thread exists :

You can post here, anything that you shouldn't post in this forum, generally everything straightly unrelated but related some how with this community and its residents. Do not post news and events from around the world. There is a more appropriate forum for this sort of things: Off-Topic

The purpose of this thread is to have a break, some chat & fun and get familiar to each other.

Note that the Apolyton Forum Rules apply here as well so avoid spam, troll or flame of any kind and behave well

Have fun


Related threads

GENERAL: CtP2 Source Code Cafe
GENERAL: Cafe "Tamerlin" II

Martin Gühmann
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Moderator
Berlin, Germany
Mar 2001
time: 23:26
16-06-2007 21:42 | www
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#2 | report |
Full PM-box? Change here!


Well for the celebration of today I forgot the party people.




Ah, much better.

-Martin

E
Call to Power II Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
May 1999
time: 14:26
17-06-2007 18:33 | www
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#3 | report |
Full PM-box? Change here!


Yeah, this place is rocking!

How was the birthday? hopefully the Geman weather was nice

Protra3211
Prince
Jun 2003
time: 22:26
17-06-2007 21:21
edit | quote
#4 | report |
Remove this text


Nice to see everyone at the brithday party!Hope you have many more to come.
Peter Triggs posted in the other Cafe thread.Would be great to have him come back again.His Conquest mod is still one of the best at movement of AI units when at war.Even sea and air units which was always a weakness of the AI.
Also has the Coup De'etat code which would be perfect for the playtest build.Weaker civs would join stronger ones and would make for tough end game face off with the AI.

LemurMadness
CTP2 Source Code ProjectSpanish CiversCall to Power II Multiplayer
Warlord
Southernlands
May 2006
time: 22:26
18-06-2007 00:59
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#5 | report |
Tired of ads?


Happy delayed birthday Martin! (work's draining my soul out... )

Just hope adding E (lowercase) suffixes won't bring any legal battle with any company, that would be silly

demon59
The Courts of Candle'Bre
Chieftain
Decatur, AL
Oct 2002
time: 16:26
18-06-2007 05:49
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#6 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2


Happy belated birthday, Martin!

Maquiladora
Call to Power II MultiplayerCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power PBEMCall to Power Multiplayer
Emperor
Monterrey, Mexico
Jun 2001
time: 16:26
18-06-2007 16:29 | www
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#7 | report |
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution


quote:
Originally posted by Protra3211
Nice to see everyone at the brithday party!Hope you have many more to come.
Peter Triggs posted in the other Cafe thread.Would be great to have him come back again.His Conquest mod is still one of the best at movement of AI units when at war.Even sea and air units which was always a weakness of the AI.
Also has the Coup De'etat code which would be perfect for the playtest build.Weaker civs would join stronger ones and would make for tough end game face off with the AI.


I agree, I really like some of the things Call to Conquest mod does. I don't think it uses Frenzy AI to group units and attack either does it?

The only thing I didn't like was the fairly bland maps, but I understand this was to help the AI build/develop cities in good terrain all the time, as it spaces them so far apart.

E
Call to Power II Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
May 1999
time: 14:26
18-06-2007 19:01 | www
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#8 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame


if any one has the time, if you go through the slic and take out the amjor concepts (and referencing what the slic code names are would really help). I can look for ways to hard code them and maybe make them game options like I did for 'one city challenge'. THe other options is to do via constDB for stuff that requires probability. I've been thinking of a way to do civil war code based on that. if the probability is 0.0 in costDB then you wont have civil wars in game, if not there is a chance that when a capital is captured it will cause a civil war (like civ1).

Maquiladora
Call to Power II MultiplayerCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power PBEMCall to Power Multiplayer
Emperor
Monterrey, Mexico
Jun 2001
time: 16:26
18-06-2007 21:24 | www
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#9 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition


Here's what seems to be the main merge civ code:

code:
///////////////// // // Merge Civ // // original idea: Lou Wigman // // original scripting: The Immortal Wombat (aka Ben Weaver) // // adapted for CTC by PT // ///////////////// void_f CTC_MergeCivs(int_t CivOne, int_t CivTwo, int_t CivOneUnitCount, int_t PWtotal){ // give civ one assets to civ two int_t i; int_t RiotLevel; int_t HapBoost; int_t CivOneCityCount; int_t CivOneUnitType[]; city_t tmpCity; city_t CivOneCity[]; unit_t tmpUnit; location_t tmpLoc; location_t CivOneUnitLoc[]; // re-init CivOneUnit arrays? for (i=0;i 0){ if(Random(9)<1) {//include random chance of quicker merge DoMerge=1; } } if (DoMerge){ if (player[0].owner == MERGE_SOURCE){ //so MERGE_SOURCE must still be alive if (IsPlayerAlive(MERGE_TARGET)){ DisableMessageClass(180103);//disable conquered by message player[1]=MERGE_TARGET; message(CTC_THE_CONQUERER,'CTC_ImportantNewsComing In'); EnableTrigger('CTC_MergecivExec'); } } } if (player[0].owner == CTC_THE_CONQUERER){//decrease count every time CTC_THE_CONQUERER has a turn MERGE_COUNTDOWN=MERGE_COUNTDOWN-1; } if (MERGE_COUNTDOWN <0){ //shut down CTC_THE_CONQUERER=0; MERGE_SOURCE=0; MERGE_TARGET=0; EnableMessageClass(180103); DisableTrigger('CTC_MergecivCheck'); // here's the place to check to see if we want to do another one } } alertbox 'CTC_ImportantNewsComingIn' { Title(ID_BREAKING_NEWS); Text (ID_ImportantNewsComingInTxt ); Button(ID_BUTTON_CLOSE){ Kill(); } } HandleEvent(EndTurn) 'CTC_MergecivExec' pre { int_t CivOneUnitCount; int_t PWtotal; int_t numAI; int_t i; if (!IsHumanPlayer(player[0].owner) ){//aborted if SLIC reloaded player[1]=MERGE_TARGET; PWtotal = player[1].publicworkslevel; PWtotal = PWtotal + player[0].publicworkslevel; CivOneUnitCount=player[0].units; numAI=0; for (i=1;i

Maquiladora
Call to Power II MultiplayerCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power PBEMCall to Power Multiplayer
Emperor
Monterrey, Mexico
Jun 2001
time: 16:26
25-06-2007 20:25 | www
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#10 | report |
Increase Your PM Length


Seems too dead (more than usual ) around here so I'm bumping this thread.

I've got pretty bored of CIV4 (combat mainly) recently, not excited about the upcoming expansion either to be honest. I've been messing around with creating scenarios with the playtest, mainly to experiment and find bugs.

How many do we still have here anyway? I haven't seen Fromafar post recently, but he does come and go. (how) are we progressing on AI sea invasions/unit grouping/movement? What else is being worked on?

Protra3211
Prince
Jun 2003
time: 22:26
25-06-2007 21:28
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#11 | report |
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon


I was giving Hearts of Iron 2 Doomsday version a try.Not a bad game.Many mods are in the works .
Also have Supreme Ruler 2010.Very deep game and learning curve is so steep its taken more time to get thur then reading War and Peace.Not Call to Power by any means but does have many features found in civilization games.
Im thinking of using the merge code in the playtest to see if it works.Well look over the Conqust read me files.
There may be other features involved that allows the code to work right.

E
Call to Power II Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
May 1999
time: 14:26
25-06-2007 21:42 | www
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#12 | report |
Full PM-box? Change here!


I'm still here of course. I had finals and two work trips a few weeks back. I still managed to squirt out new code.

ELITE & LEADERS: Mainly civ3 inspired but itallows for units to promote from veteran to elite (with a double medal icon) that basically adds the vet coefficient again. but also an elite unit can spawn a great leader if victorious. i recall that this kind of code was in CTC as well. The requiremenents for a moder is to have the constDB chances for combat leader and combat elite set above 0.0 and you need to create a leader unit. it can be anytype of unit but it has to have a line that says 'cantbuild' and 'leader' to prevent anyone from building it and for having the game to identify it as a leader


SEA INVASIONS: On seas invasions, I know next to nothing on the AI, but I'm wondering why the ai has to do the calc everyturn. maybe we can add a decision tree where the AI first determines whether it needs to do any sea stuff at all. Just thinking of how I play I usually either dock my boats somewhere and then do navy stuff or just ignore the navy. Maybe the AI should do the same, but it will be great for playtesters to tell us how you play navies so we can teach the AI that ay.

MERGE CIVS: I poked around the code. I think it will be easy to do a merge civ, there is a resetowner method that changes city ownership and we can just cycle it through all the cities. but thequestions is when should h game do it? I'm thinking that maybe we should have a flag for the Age.txt that once the human reaches a certain age then the merge will occur up to the number of civs speciefield in a line (i.e, have a line in age.txt like MergeAICiv 3, the # specifying how many max AI civs at that point). The other issue I leave to you guys is how do we determine which civs merge into which? I think using the canbuildunit method as a template I can check if civs have a similar culture/citystyle. I think I can also take something from diplomacy and see if they are on the same continent. Finally I guess if the the other two don't apply it will just be a merge of the lowerscore to the highest score.

thoughts?



Last note I tried out civ4 warlords, the alex scenario. not terrible, but already the single combat and the workers IRRITATE me. Other than that its a bit inspiring for a rework of the Ctp2 scenario, I would probably do it with my civ3 units/cities/terrain though.

Last edited by E on 28-06-2007 at 21:31

Maquiladora
Call to Power II MultiplayerCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power PBEMCall to Power Multiplayer
Emperor
Monterrey, Mexico
Jun 2001
time: 16:26
27-06-2007 05:30 | www
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#13 | report |
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame


quote:
Originally posted by Protra3211
I was giving Hearts of Iron 2 Doomsday version a try.Not a bad game.Many mods are in the works .
Also have Supreme Ruler 2010.Very deep game and learning curve is so steep its taken more time to get thur then reading War and Peace.Not Call to Power by any means but does have many features found in civilization games.
Im thinking of using the merge code in the playtest to see if it works.Well look over the Conqust read me files.
There may be other features involved that allows the code to work right.


I've been playing HOI2 with Amageddon expansion aswell. Pretty tough but a great game.

The merge code would be great to get the AI competing right to the end, especially keeping up in size/growth. It made the game get gradually harder, whereas most other mods (except Dark Ages in AoM) it would start out hard and get gradually easier.

E you might want to have a word with Peter for any problems/faults/fixes with the merge code, or check the CtC thread. I'll check it later, I want to start another game of CtC aswell.

The Elite/Leaders idea sounds great if it all goes well.

Naval invasions I have no idea how to tell the AI to go about it, but it would have to be very simple stuff to suit every map.

For example, if the sea route to closest enemy city is larger than a land route to any enemy the AI should never perform a full sea invasion. Or even if there is ANY land route to the enemy a sea invasion plan should never be initiated. Then a navy should just stick to pillaging and go all out to win the land war.

Size of navy could be partially dependent on number of coastal cities, to protect the sea tile imps.

E
Call to Power II Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
May 1999
time: 14:26
03-07-2007 00:29 | www
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#14 | report |
Put an end to popups!


I heard a rumor over at civfanatics that Civ IV:BTS is going to have a tile improvement that costs gold to build.

Not Ctp2 news in itself, but if that code is available that means Civ4 couldhave something that works like PW. I know in CTP2 I'm usually more concerned about PW than Gold, so it wouldmke sense to have Civ4 use gold instead of PW.

Man, Gold for tileimps + corporations + Dale's stacked combat mod ... depending on how it works out, its getting tougher for me to stick to CTP2

Protra3211
Prince
Jun 2003
time: 22:26
03-07-2007 03:38
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#15 | report |
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon


On vacation for two weeks.Time to catch up on my reading.But of course will be giving the latest build 748 a try.
I have noticed Dale,s mod work too and wonder if Civ4 is worth giving a chance.The thing is CtP2 allows for a large map with many AI factions without putting a strain on your computor.From what I have gleaned from many threads is you need a least a gig of ram along with high end video card or you have problems playing Civ4.
Im not to far from those specs its a matter time before I upgrade.

E
Call to Power II Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
May 1999
time: 14:26
03-07-2007 04:07 | www
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#16 | report |
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)


I upgraded in januray to a core duo with 2GB Ram...so civ4 is getting is playable for me...will have to see what BTS is like though.

I wont leave ctp2 without fixing a few things though.

Maquiladora
Call to Power II MultiplayerCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power PBEMCall to Power Multiplayer
Emperor
Monterrey, Mexico
Jun 2001
time: 16:26
03-07-2007 05:15 | www
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#17 | report |
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon


Have you used Dale's combat mod? I haven't because it's never likely to catch on for multi-player.

Combat is by far my biggest gripe with Civ4. I play Warlords for short intense periods but get bored, frustrated or annoyed with combat eventually.

So it's mainly the combat that keeps me playing CtP2. The random map AI can be annoying with the playtest and I don't have the time or inclination to improve it myself, so I've been sticking to creating specific scenarios and teaching the AI to follow very specific roles, which is actually quite satisfying as you can get results quite quickly.

E
Call to Power II Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
May 1999
time: 14:26
03-07-2007 16:59 | www
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#18 | report |
Got spare money?


I'm still in the middle of the Warlords Alex scenario and the combat is getting too me. I wish there was icon to tell you how many units are out there too.

THe other thing is the worker tedium, having to move those things around and supervise tehm so they don't screw up in automation, gets rid of the custom feel I get when I use PW. If the gold thing works out it may mean more to build my infrastructure, which I like - but we'll have to see.

I tried Dale's mod briefly. THe thing I don't like is that I just cant load dale's mod and use it in a scenario. I think I have to copy it over or something.

Yeah the CTP2 AI needs work and we need to make interface changes, specifically just adding list boxes to tileimps, orders, and the tribe screen (at start up). Other that the interface is close enough to civ4 in functionality that it just needs a graphics cleanup. On that note I (finally) got a copy of ctp1 and the UI functionality sucks, but I like the colors. Any objections if I clean up the CTP2 interface to have the golden CTP1 colors?

The tough part of it all is that there is this gap between ctp2 and civ4. I don't have the coding skills to add PW and combat to Civ4 and I don't have the skills to fix the AI in CTP2

If anything I promise to be hear until the fourth anniversary of source code release (Oct '07)

Maquiladora
Call to Power II MultiplayerCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power PBEMCall to Power Multiplayer
Emperor
Monterrey, Mexico
Jun 2001
time: 16:26
03-07-2007 19:17 | www
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#19 | report |
Put an end to popups!


quote:
Originally posted by E

THe other thing is the worker tedium, having to move those things around and supervise tehm so they don't screw up in automation, gets rid of the custom feel I get when I use PW. If the gold thing works out it may mean more to build my infrastructure, which I like - but we'll have to see.


I usually automate just before the modern age (if i get that far). As all they need to do then is hook up the trade network on any new resources i get. I might interrupt a few to build workshops later on though.

quote:
Any objections if I clean up the CTP2 interface to have the golden CTP1 colors?


I would object, although I probably prefer the CtP1 colours as well, it's not what CtP2 was intended to be. I felt the same about some of CtP1 terrain, but again it's not really what CtP2 is, and we would be throwing away the original CtP2 material to go backwards, which is a shame.

quote:
The tough part of it all is that there is this gap between ctp2 and civ4. I don't have the coding skills to add PW and combat to Civ4 and I don't have the skills to fix the AI in CTP2


Well we do have a decent AI for CtP2, it's just wrapped up in various mods, which I get the feeling is where it's going to stay. But after all the original intention of the source code was only to fix bugs and improve moddability. If we can get Ages of Man (hopefully some other mods as well) working with the playtest and all bugs ironed out I'd say it's good enough.

quote:
If anything I promise to be hear until the fourth anniversary of source code release (Oct '07)


Do we know what Martin G is up to? If it looks like the code will stop being worked on soon (for whatever reasons), I suggest we try to wrap things up ASAP.

As long as I'm visiting Apolyton I'll be around, but of course I don't contribute as much, certainly not to coding.

E
Call to Power II Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
May 1999
time: 14:26
03-07-2007 21:02 | www
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#20 | report |
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon


quote:
Originally posted by Maquiladora


I usually automate just before the modern age (if i get that far). As all they need to do then is hook up the trade network on any new resources i get. I might interrupt a few to build workshops later on though.



That doesn't work for me, often i just see the workers hanging out in my city..damn drifters

quote:

I would object, although I probably prefer the CtP1 colours as well, it's not what CtP2 was intended to be. I felt the same about some of CtP1 terrain, but again it's not really what CtP2 is, and we would be throwing away the original CtP2 material to go backwards, which is a shame.


based on the condition of ctp2 I'm sure anyone knows what it was intended to be I won't be reverting back to ctp1 I was planning on using that color scheme to make new ggraphics, using stuff we see in current games like civ4 and civcity:rome where there is a fade in the buttons and stuff like that. On one hand I can do it and see what people think (by making it a mod) on the other hand if its not wanted I'm not going to expend the effort.



quote:

Well we do have a decent AI for CtP2, it's just wrapped up in various mods, which I get the feeling is where it's going to stay. But after all the original intention of the source code was only to fix bugs and improve moddability. If we can get Ages of Man (hopefully some other mods as well) working with the playtest and all bugs ironed out I'd say it's good enough.


unfortunately Martin things the mod AI isn't devcent but cheats and etc. the other AI problem is the diplomacy. CTP2 diplomacy needs a serious rework and its yet another area I don't have the skill to improve.

quote:

Do we know what Martin G is up to? If it looks like the code will stop being worked on soon (for whatever reasons), I suggest we try to wrap things up ASAP.


I have no idea what he's up to, he has been slowing down regarding how much he does for ctp2. if he stays active I'd be encouraged to stay on. Fromafar seems to slowed down as well. Both have been doing minor cleanups and correcting me more than doing any major changes to the code since the last year almost

quote:

As long as I'm visiting Apolyton I'll be around, but of course I don't contribute as much, certainly not to coding.


you could help out by working with strategies.txt to get the barbarian to act normal (like no wonders, balance attack and siege). I still haven't figured out how to do that.

Maquiladora
Call to Power II MultiplayerCTP2 Source Code ProjectCall to Power PBEMCall to Power Multiplayer
Emperor
Monterrey, Mexico
Jun 2001
time: 16:26
03-07-2007 22:38 | www
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#21 | report |
Enter the AD-FREE zone


quote:
based on the condition of ctp2 I'm sure anyone knows what it was intended to be I won't be reverting back to ctp1 I was planning on using that color scheme to make new ggraphics, using stuff we see in current games like civ4 and civcity:rome where there is a fade in the buttons and stuff like that. On one hand I can do it and see what people think (by making it a mod) on the other hand if its not wanted I'm not going to expend the effort.


Some of it is nice in CtP2, like the columns on the empire window, it has a nice theme IMO, except the science victory window, that's FUGLY

Transparent/Faded buttons sounds cool though, be nice to see what that looks like, but not if it means more bugs at this stage...

quote:
unfortunately Martin things the mod AI isn't devcent but cheats and etc. the other AI problem is the diplomacy. CTP2 diplomacy needs a serious rework and its yet another area I don't have the skill to improve.


There's no one here to fix the AI properly and (at least IMO) the AI in the mods can still be very good. Maybe it's time to just focus entirely on bug finding/fixing now. All the additions you've all made are a big improvement, but it's obvious things are slowing down so maybe now is the time to consolidate what we have. Unless Martin and Fromafar (or anyone else) come and tell us they're still working on the AI that is.

quote:
you could help out by working with strategies.txt to get the barbarian to act normal (like no wonders, balance attack and siege). I still haven't figured out how to do that.


That's something I've been messing with while playtesting. Different levels of barbs as well, to find the best balance between a fun challenge for the human and not killing the AI's chances in the first 50 turns.

All this depends on the activity of the rest of the project though. No point reporting if there's no one around to fix it.

Martin Gühmann
Call to Power II Democracy GameCall to Power Democracy GameCTP2 Source Code Project
Moderator
Berlin, Germany
Mar 2001
time: 23:26
04-07-2007 18:47 | www
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#22 | report |
Suffering from ads?


quote:
Originally posted by E
unfortunately Martin things the mod AI isn't devcent but cheats and etc.


That's indeed not fine, if you decide to play against a cheater then it is your problem. But otherwise it should play fair, it should use all the things you can use.

On another issure: There is something out there called real live. And I shouldn't devote all my time for CTP2, simply there is also something else.

For the merging code, if you really need something like this than please make it optional, so that I don't have to be bothered with it. Simply I like an AI that plays to the end-victory (or should I say Endsieg. ) of course this may not only end in the total war but also in the total defeat.

About the AI: This one is not so easy you have a lot of files and everywhere can be a little defect hidden, so you have to find it first. But one difficulty to find such defects is that you have no idea what you are looking for. Maybe you have a vague idea what it is like empty sea transporter, but you just may slip accitentally over it.
Another problem with the AI code is that it is hard to understand, those iterators aren't very intuitive. Actually you can only rework this AI, try to clean it up first, try to simplify it first, without changing the functionality first, in the hope that you may stumble over s