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The Clash of Civilizations Project
My apologies for all the shouting, but new people to the forum were having trouble finding the basic info on what's going on with the project.
What's going on:
This is a project for a civ-like game (but Not a clone) called The Clash of Civilizations.
Your first stop should be at the Clash Web Site. It's Packed with information on where we are right now, and where we're going!
Our Forum for suggestions and working out a design spec is Right Here. Please comment on things you like or don't like. Make alternative suggestions, its an open mike  . But please read the "Suggestions" link on the web site so you know how to make your comments in a way that will have a lasting impact on the development.
If you just want to say a quick hi, and maybe ask one or two general questions, please use the... The Clash forum guestbook v.2.
And if you're interested in helping out by responding to our poll about Clash's design, then please go to: Give us feedback - answer our questions!
Clash Status:
The overall design of the game is fairly far along, although there are still quite a few areas weak on smaller details. Coding is fairly advanced in many areas like the Map, Military, Economy, Technology and Social/Government. Our latest demo to acid-test our game models and interfaces is available off the web page. Please note the demos are to give the team and outsiders a Very early chance at commenting on the design, and are Nowhere Near the finished product!
Gary Thomas is now organizing the coding (as of about 4/01). He maintains good professional coding standards, and is implementing as much as he can as fast as he can. Laurent is developing the military model code, and I've done a lot on economy and social/government, but am in the process of turning it over to Gary. There is also continuous work on several models that are in the latest demo, or will be in its immediate successor.
We are now using a 'radical' programming/design approach where we will try to release new versions frequently for comment and bug-hunting etc. This approach relies less on design docs, and more on a 'living' evolution of the game design as the coding progresses. A release with major new features is expected every few months!
The game as it stands is not as far along as we'd like it to be! We all want something Really playable. But as the coding progresses, there are a lot of ways that good thoughts in the design area can still seriously influence the final game at this point. So we want to hear from you!
This is your chance to comment on a civ-like game to someone who will Really Listen. To get your comments in the right places, so they can have the maximum effect, please look over the model on the appropriate web page area First, and post in the most recent thread.
Note: For people who aren't familiar with Apolyton, there are a Lot of good ideas for changes in civ-like games in the other forums. If you look at posts for the last year you'll see a Lot of interesting suggestions.
And finally if you want more info, but don't want to read more than a few pages, check out the Clash of Civilizations Feature on Alt Civs. It duplicates some of the info above, but does add a fair amount of detail to what you've already seen.
Mark Everson
Clash of Civilizations Highlights
- Type of game: Whole-History 4x TBS
- Play types: Single & Multi- Player
- Design goals: Killer AI, Reduced Micromanagement, More Realistic Feel
- Distribution type: Shareware
- Current version: Demo 7.1
- Scheduled release date: Oct 2003? (but fairly playable even now, and getting better with every demo!)
- Platforms: All! (Anything that will run Java)
- Programming language: Java
- Need of help?: Yes, Clash can abuse your help in virtually any area
- Graphics: 8-bit
- Map: Isometric / Cylindrical
- Tiles: Square (polygons planned for the future)
- Unique/generic civs: Unique or Generic, depending on scenario design
- Victory types: Varies (player set)
- Number of max civs: Unlimited (player set)
- Simultaneous moves: Yes
- Customizable units: Yes
- Borders: Yes
- Tile improvement model: Similar to public works in CTP, but much more sophisticated
- Stacks/tactical combat: Stacks / automatic tactical combat that takes into account player orders
- Goverments: Detailed Government model including internal power struggles
- Contact: Mark Everson -- markeverson@comcast.net
- Web page: http://clash.apolyton.net/frame/index.shtml
- Mirror Web page: http://cullivan.com/coc/frame/index.shtml
- Discussion: Clash of Civilizations forum on Apolyton
[edit Dec 14, add link to Clash feature on Alt Civs]
Last edited by Mark_Everson on 15-12-2002 at 15:15
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Emperor
voice of reason
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Mar 1999
time: 23:45
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Mark: I have posted some ideas in Civ3 general suggestion forum. The thread is called Poll: "revolutionary or not? and a new unit idea".
Maybe you will find something there.
ATa
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Thanks ATa, I'll check it out.
-Mark
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Prince
Stockholm, Sweden
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Jan 1970
time: 22:45
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Bump (haha, i got to do it)
What happended with the new graphics mark? I remember calling your game ugly, in a humorous kinda way, but it look real cool otherwise. But what happened with the new graphics that were on their way?
Call to power is the most goodlooking Civ game up to date, made in photoshop ! Maybe thats one way to go....
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E
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Emperor
Proud member of the CTP2AE coding team :)
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May 1999
time: 14:45
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I'm adding this to help with my input (I wish I could program to help out too). One thing about micromanagement and gametime. Civ2 made it for people to play at any given time period (the scenarios) but management was the same. My suggestion kinda lets the player choose what level of management (some like to micromanage some don't, some like me toggle in between depending on the crisis/situation). I think Clash of Civilizaions will be a success if it gives as much options to the player as they want/possible, thats what made civ2 (it was not so much the game but you could tailor the game to you! brillant marketing idea, don't give it to the buyer, give them the tools and let them make it!)
that civ3 be basically a combination of civ2, Age of Empires, and Simcity3000 (but not too much simcity3000).
It would be cool to start with your town center as the beginning of your civilization. Unlike AoE a town center would have a governoring radius and that would be each individual city (so you can name them, and with tech advances that radius may increase) and you build improvements like AoE but in a city like Civ2 (and as time goes on like simcity3000).
Resources would be gathered the same as AoE but you can also irrigate and mine and some special resources are around. And they would be expendable unlike civ (but you should be able to trade for resources too)
When you take an enemy city or you start a new one you can leave it to an automated governor (or like the Romans did annex a city or ally with it and give it ultimatums etc). The governor will follow a list of preset city designs with a priority of what to build first, ordered by you.
City improvement will be varied like civ2 but takes time to build like AoE and there will be workers like AoE.
The types of city design (city layouts) options will increase with technologies (your capital city will be on the list, remember Roman cities tried to be modeled on Rome). The governor could have some AI like whether he spends a lot, or is corrupt, etc.
Then you could zoom to a strategic map. So you can see the whole world (which you can't in AoE). At this level you see the city with a city icon (like civ2) or borders like they have been proposing.
as for war etc.
You build an army out of units you can view at a tactical level (like AoE). The army would be led by a leader unit and based on some preset battle formations that increase as you advance (legion, phalanx, etc but with a customizable feature you can make your own).
If you feel a little controlling go down to the tactical and fight like AoE or leave it to your general who will fight based on the formation and will have an AI disposition (for aggressiveness etc but you can also train them to be better)
At the strategic level you would see army icons (like a flag with a number or something else you can draw on a *.bmp)
The computer can calculate based on averages what the strength of your army is so you can wage war at a strategic level (if you don't want to see the tactical fight).
This could progress through the ages but I think an option of how many ages you really want to go through would be nice. This general idea plus a lot of the ideas going around like:
a lot of civs at one time
the ability to govern from city to regional levels which would work in my idea once you leave the city-state and set autogovernors and rule nationally
new techs
seeing wonders and city improvements so you can attack them
and cultural specific look for some cities, units
and a lot more. Yeah it would be a long drawn out game, but this would be my one big wish!
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E:
We have a good chunk of your wish list covered. If you set the box at the top of the main forum screen to 'show all topics' you will be able to see the threads with the main game models and discussion about them.
-Mark
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Gotta keep this "above the fold"
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Settler
boston MA
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Sep 1999
time: 22:45
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Why does all tech have to always come in exactly the same order with exactly the same characteristics.
I need more random unexpectedness!
One nations calvary might have been better...
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common terry:
This comment belongs in the tech/research thread if you want to get it seriously considered. Open the thread "Best Way To Get Your Suggestions Implemented in Clash " and follow the links and you can find it...
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Kull:
You beat me by about 10 minutes. I was just about to make the change...
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Sorry, but there just isn't much in the way of screenshots yet. Those that exist are only for the early demo versions of the game, and are on the web page. My philosophy is that the artistic work is much better spent in producing Actual Art for working versions of Clash, rather than faking up an extensive series of screenshots. YMMV
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Warlord
Turku, Finland
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May 1999
time: 00:45
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Have you thought about including different difficulty settings already?
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King
NC, USA
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Nov 1999
time: 23:45
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It's been brandied about. But we can't discuss it seriously until the models are a lot more complete and we have playtested the game.
For example, I could describe, with numbers, how the difficulty settings might affect the technology model and the difficulty of research. But since we haven't playtested the model, I don't know the exact effect of those changes. Difficulty levels will have to come a lot later in the development process.
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Yep, difficulty settings are a loooong way away. The only thing I can add at this point is that the difficulty levels should be very customizable. So you should be able to arbitrarily make military conquest harder independent of tech or the economy.
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Chieftain
Rio de Janeiro
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Jan 1970
time: 22:45
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Hey, I haven't been here for a long while(a year?)
I remember the great excitement of last spring with all the super realistic models(economy(Mark Everson), military(Druid2), diplomacy(Kull), government(Hrafnkell)...) that kept coming and that generated huge discussions.
I would just like to know('cos I don't want to spend hours on the net searching), has all of it remained unchanged? Or did you have, at one stage, to somewhat simplify things...(oh no!)
Basically, I'm willing to have an update here, not an overview of the Clash project.
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Hi Mikael:
Well, of course there's been a lot of changes... but if what you're asking is in general have most of the models been radically simplified, then the answer is no.
If you aren't sufficiently interested to hit the Clash web page and read some of the summaries, which are generally only a few paragraphs long, then its Definitely not worth it to me to spend significant amounts of time to write you a summary...
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MarkG
23-07-2000 10:32
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This person is on your Ignore List. To view this post click
[here]
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I've added a Clash of civilizations highlights section to the introductory blurb at the top of this thread.
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Prince
Athens Greece
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Sep 1999
time: 00:45
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***bump***
Yes, that WAS a sticky thread, but with the recent malady that ACS has undergone, it has lost it's sticky status and has sunk in it's proper position. I hope that everything is ok with the Clash Team's accounts (alot of accounts in Apolyton were messed up).
This brings back the issue if we have a backup of some sort, of the most important threads for the development of Clash. Mark?
------------------
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
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Thanks!
